Why Mental Health Starts with the Whole Person

Riordan Clinic [00:00:00]:
The information contained on the Real Health Podcast and the resources mentioned are for educational purposes only. They are not intended as and shall not be understood or construed as medical or health advice. The information contained on this podcast is not a substitute for medical or health advice from a professional who is aware of the facts and circumstances of your individual situation. Information provided by hosts and guests on the Real Health Podcast or the use of any products or services mentioned does not create a practitioner patient relationship between you and any persons affiliated with this podcast. This is the Real Health Podcast brought to you by Riordan Clinic. Our mission is to bring you the latest information and top experts in functional and integrative medicine to help you make informed decisions on your path to real health.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:00:55]:
Welcome to the Real Health Podcast. I’m Dr. Michelle Niesley and I’m here today with our Chief Medical Officer, Dr. Drew Rose.

Drew Rose, DO [00:01:02]:
Hello.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:01:03]:
And we are going to be discussing mental health. May is Mental Health Awareness Month and we would like to touch on a few items with mental health. We talk a lot about physical illness on a regular basis. When we’re talking with co learners, often we’re talking about physically how they’re feeling, but we also like to tap into that mental emotional state that they’re in. And so, Dr. Drew, I’m wondering if you can lead us off with the importance of mental health when you’re working with a patient.

Drew Rose, DO [00:01:32]:
Yeah, of course. Something I’ve spoke a lot about actually, is the fact that I’m an osteopath. And the first tenet of osteopathy is those of you who have seen my other podcasts have actually known that it is every person as a unit of body, mind and spirit. So as much work that we do on the body, it’s just as much work needs to be done on the mind as well. So literally one third of the whole person.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:01:57]:
Yeah. Which is really, I feel under. Under treated.

Drew Rose, DO [00:02:01]:
Absolutely. In other situations, and especially in today’s day and age, where the societal pressures of, you know, glorifying the grind and, you know, really putting your worth and your productivity, which all of these things are not necessarily the healthiest, it’s. It’s thought patterns that we need to actually tap into as providers here at Riordan Clinic. Just as important as looking at the labs, trying to find ways to de stress your entire life and try to focus more on the positive, I think is actually just as important.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:02:34]:
Absolutely. And I know the majority of Americans, I think, you know, some statistics are up to 90% of Americans, when surveyed, really feel like Mental health isn’t well addressed by the medical system.

Drew Rose, DO [00:02:45]:
Absolutely. About 90% feel that their own mental health is waning, in fact. So. And when you look at some of the statistics, you know, kind of taking a step back, 1 in 5, 1 in 4 to 1 in 5 Americans suffer from an actual diagnosable mental illness, but then only 14 to 25% actually are being treated. So there’s a huge treatment gap as well within our own healthcare system.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:03:09]:
And why do you think that treatment gap exists?

Drew Rose, DO [00:03:12]:
So, historically, mental health has not really been looked at cohesively. So I have an article coming out that kind of outlines in the full paragraph, going through quickly over the areas of the evolution of healthcare, specifically mental health care in the United States, going all the way back to colonial times when mental health was considered a moral sin or moral imbalance. You know, these people were thrusted into places like jailhouses, poor houses, which then led to overcrowding, which then led to the need for asylums, which were supposed to be sanctuaries for a lot of these people.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:03:52]:
Right.

Drew Rose, DO [00:03:52]:
Unfortunately, lack of funding and lack of resources and overcrowding led to more of a custodial care system, which then fractured and then people became desperate.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:04:04]:
Yeah.

Drew Rose, DO [00:04:04]:
You know, that’s where we had a lot of the modalities like electroconvulsive therapy, lobotomies, and insulin induced comas, even as treatment modalities. Fortunately, ethics kind of caught up and then we had the medicine boom.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:04:20]:
Yes.

Drew Rose, DO [00:04:20]:
So there’s a lot that ties into what we see today, but we’re still missing some pieces here. And hopefully the work that we do here at Riordan, at least, the hope is that we can balance again the body, mind and spirit and be a more cohesive structure.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:04:37]:
Term. And when you talk about the medication boom, you’re talking about SSRIs and things like that, correct?

Drew Rose, DO [00:04:42]:
Yes. SSRI is psychotropic medications as well, which we all know, at least from the history of Riordan Clinic was an area of medications that Dr. Riordan didn’t really appreciate as well.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:04:54]:
Right.

Drew Rose, DO [00:04:54]:
You know, side effect profiles are. Can be horrendous for some people. Not all, but some.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:04:59]:
Mm. Right. So in looking at when you’re working with a new patient, for example, and we’re doing some labs to go ahead and assess, you know, what may be causing some physical ailments as well as mental emotional ailments, are there any tests that you’re looking at in particular that help you hone in on maybe some nutrients that would be important as far as mental health?

Drew Rose, DO [00:05:21]:
Is concerned. Oh, absolutely. The vitamins are very important, especially vitamin D. We all kind of know about vitamin D getting enough sun. You don’t get enough vitamin D from the sun all the time. But the, the correlation between vitamin D levels and mood, mood stability, that is, has actually been studied quite a bit. But then other ones that you don’t really think of, you know, the B vitamins balancing out your autonomic nervous system and detoxifying your body and just overall how you feel. The B vitamins can be incredibly powerful as well.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:05:54]:
Yeah.

Drew Rose, DO [00:05:55]:
Some of the other sneakier ones that I think, the fatty acid profiles that can lead to chronic inflammation. If you think about it, body mind connection, you don’t feel well, ultimately your mood starts to suffer as well.

Riordan Clinic [00:06:07]:
Sure.

Drew Rose, DO [00:06:07]:
So it, the implications of the labs that we do here as far as on mood, we could talk about all day on.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:06:14]:
Right. And I think most people don’t realize that, you know, when you’re talking about serotonin production, for example, to turn 5 HTP into serotonin, you actually need vitamin B6 and you need magnesium.

Drew Rose, DO [00:06:26]:
Correct.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:06:27]:
And so almost every biochemical reaction that occurs in the body requires both a vitamin and a mineral co factor. Right. And so by assessing those, you may find that if someone is deficient, they’re actually not able to produce some of the happier hormones, so to speak, like serotonin or even some of those different neurotransmitters that induce calm.

Drew Rose, DO [00:06:45]:
Exactly. And it’s, it’s kind of those common sense things from a provider perspective that I feel like can be overlooked quite a bit. You know, just because your magnesium level on a normal chemistry profile is, quote, unquote, within reference range, doesn’t necessarily mean that you have the available, available magnesium.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:07:03]:
Right.

Drew Rose, DO [00:07:03]:
To, you know, balance out those pathways.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:07:06]:
Sure. And magnesium, for example, you know, is involved in over 300 different biochemical reactions. So everything from a lot of those different biochemical reactions that regulate mood, but also muscle relaxation.

Drew Rose, DO [00:07:18]:
Yes.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:07:18]:
Right. Yes. And so when you’re talking about being stressed and that muscle tension and everything as well, magnesium can be incredibly useful in helping us physically relax and then actually providing the amount of neurotransmitters that you need to biochemically relax as well.

Drew Rose, DO [00:07:34]:
Exactly. Magnesium tends to be one of those ones that I tell people, you know, don’t necessarily go crazy. But it’s also really hard to overdose on, usually because of that relaxation. One of the first side effects you’re going to notice is looser bowels.

Riordan Clinic [00:07:48]:
Sure.

Drew Rose, DO [00:07:49]:
So you are, you know, automatically, if you get that back off a little bit.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:07:53]:
Yeah.

Drew Rose, DO [00:07:53]:
But for example, totally going to call out. My dad here was able to get him off of Ambien. You know, sleep is incredibly important.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:08:01]:
Right.

Drew Rose, DO [00:08:02]:
And when you utilize particular formula of magnesium, specifically glycinate and threonate, you can take a moderate dose, about 400 milligrams, somewhere around that range, and you actually get some sleepiness you don’t get. I don’t really like to say sedated.

Riordan Clinic [00:08:18]:
Sure.

Drew Rose, DO [00:08:19]:
Because especially for myself, if I take that, it kind of lulls me to sleep. But I’ve had my dog wake me up an hour and a half later barking at the wind or whatever it may be, and I’m wide awake.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:08:29]:
Right, right.

Drew Rose, DO [00:08:30]:
So. But it’s just a natural way of getting yourself to sleep.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:08:33]:
Yeah. And dose and the form of magnesium is really important as well. Both magnesium oxide and magnesium citrate, those tend to be a little more problematic as far as the bowel is concerned, but then also can be really beneficial if we have a patient who’s constipated. Right, right. So finding the right form of magnesium in the right dose is definitely, definitely important. So I want to kind of parlay then. You were talking about sleep.

Drew Rose, DO [00:08:55]:
Yes.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:08:56]:
So please talk to us a little bit about the importance of sleep and mental health.

Drew Rose, DO [00:09:00]:
Oh, sleep is incredibly important. I have said this. Day one. Sleep is our reset button. Everything that happens, the amount of input our brains are taking in on a daily basis, even just minute by minute, is incredible. And our brains are efficient at siphoning the. The information we need to be aware of and kind of tucking back the other information in our subconscious. And if you don’t get enough sleep, you’re not able to really process all of that excess information that has been put into your subconscious.

Riordan Clinic [00:09:31]:
Sure.

Drew Rose, DO [00:09:32]:
And over time, you know, not getting adequate restorative sleep, that overall stress just kind of builds up on you. And you can start seeing that physiologically just by, you know, dysregulation of your nervous system and, you know, gut issues and increase inflammatory markers. There’s all sorts of different things that happen with that, not to mention what that has the effect on with your mood. You’re not stabilizing the neurotransmitters which you need in order to be, you know, fluctuating throughout the day. Normally cortisol, for example.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:10:09]:
Right.

Drew Rose, DO [00:10:10]:
Happens to be a very important hormone. Everybody thinks of cortisol, like. No, suppress it all the way down. You need certain amounts of cortisol.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:10:18]:
Yeah.

Drew Rose, DO [00:10:19]:
And you have different fluctuations throughout the day. And without Adequate sleep, you’re not getting those adequate fluctuations.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:10:25]:
Sure. And you know, talking about cortisol, people think of cortisol only being released when you’re really stressed. But like you talked about, normally we’d like to see cortisol a little higher upon waking.

Drew Rose, DO [00:10:35]:
Yes.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:10:35]:
And then kind of go decrease during the day. Almost like a playground slide. Right. And thinking about cortisol production, you know, from a, from a mood perspective, doing what we can to go ahead and decrease cortisol at night definitely makes sense so that you can get sleep. But there’s a really large impact also on adrenal health and proper weight maintenance as well.

Drew Rose, DO [00:10:58]:
Oh, absolutely.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:10:58]:
Yeah. So I think that that’s something that a lot of people underestimate. They think, oh, I’m under adrenal stress or you know, and they think of that only with regards to fatigue. But actually appropriate weight maintenance is very heavily dependent on the adrenal gland as well.

Drew Rose, DO [00:11:11]:
Absolutely. And not just. I mean, the adrenal glands also have a lot to do with the sex hormones as well. So everyone wants to run towards the hormone replacement therapies and say that, hey, my hormones are out of balance, I need this and therefore I’ll be healthier. When in reality you could do something more like sleep hygiene and start there and really get a baseline of whether or not you need some sort of supplementation or not.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:11:33]:
Yeah. I was on a podcast a few months ago and normally this host normally asks like, what’s the newest, hottest thing? What’s your favorite thing? Right. And I was like, sleep, like making sure that you’re getting a solid seven hours of sleep at night. And that can be challenging. As we age, there can be family members, there can be pets, there can be in perimenopausal women, hot flashes and things like that and a lot of disturbances. So do you have any, you know, a couple quick sleep tips that you like to offer?

Drew Rose, DO [00:12:03]:
Oh, I have more than a couple, actually. I’m sure over my years, years, I am able to go to sleep pretty quickly, but man, I seem to always wake up at 1 32, 33, 30, somewhere in there. And for those people who have difficulty going to sleep or difficulty going back to sleep when you wake up, I kind of have like a 20 minute rule one, don’t watch the clock. That’s huge. That’s going to cause more ruminating thoughts. But if you’re laying there for more than what you feel like is 20 minutes and you’re so wide awake and you don’t feel like you’re getting sleepy again. Get up and go do something that is, you know, menial. You know, don’t go do something stimulating but you know, go put the dishes in the dishwasher, something you were saving for the morning. Or go read a book. Nothing backlit. You don’t want a backlit screen with blue light.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:12:50]:
Sure.

Drew Rose, DO [00:12:51]:
But even.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:12:52]:
Wait, why is that?

Drew Rose, DO [00:12:53]:
So the blue light actually will affect the again the neurotransmitters in your brain. It actually wake you up. Light input into your eyes is actually what helps regulate your circadian rhythm.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:13:05]:
Sure.

Drew Rose, DO [00:13:05]:
So another thing that you can do first thing in the morning, first 30 minutes that you’re awake, try to get as much sunlight as you can. This becomes challenging in the winter months. This is why seasonal affective disorder is a big issue. Get a mood lamp.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:13:19]:
Yeah.

Drew Rose, DO [00:13:19]:
For those who have been in my office over the winter, you’ve seen where I have just a small square mood lamp and I turn it on. First thing I do right there in the morning, let my face get blasted with it. You’re not staring straight in it, but you’re still getting that input, Correct?

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:13:32]:
Yeah. Shutting down melatonin or decreasing melatonin production, which usually makes us sleepy. I lived in Alaska for about a year and a half and that we’d eat breakfast every morning and there was one of those sad lights, so to speak. Yeah. One of the full spectrum lights right there. And you don’t have to stare at it, but it needs to be, you know, even off to your peripheral vision for 15, 20 minutes will make a huge difference.

Drew Rose, DO [00:13:52]:
Huge.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:13:53]:
Yeah.

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Drew Rose, DO [00:14:53]:
Last couple too. Real quick. That I think are pretty important because we all Love our fur babies.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:14:58]:
Right.

Drew Rose, DO [00:14:58]:
But it has actually been studied that people sleep better when they’re not in our room. Not even. Just not in our bed, but not in our room. They need their own space just as, like, just as much as we do.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:15:09]:
Sure.

Drew Rose, DO [00:15:09]:
The other thing is charge your phone away from you.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:15:13]:
Why is that?

Drew Rose, DO [00:15:14]:
Electromagnetic fields. So especially with the smartphones, it’s actually been studied where the EM field around your phone will actually increase up to 10 times, I believe. Don’t quote me on that. But around 10 times when it’s charging. So if it’s close to your head, you can kind of get some input there. It can dysregulate things. It really does show that connection of energetic fields and our own actual physiology.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:15:39]:
And what if someone likes to have a sleep story or some sort of ambient music in the background? It’s easy to get that on your phone. And also the alarm in the morning. So just put your phone further away and turn it up a little.

Drew Rose, DO [00:15:51]:
Say, go back to the 90s when you can get, like, a sound machine or something. You know, it’s. This is where I’m. Okay. You know, staying with the more quote, unquote, archaic technology. I personally have a sound machine that’s completely separate from my phone.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:16:05]:
Yep.

Drew Rose, DO [00:16:05]:
And I. If I don’t have my phone in my room, which sometimes I feel like I need to for certain reasons, especially when I was a hospitalist. But now I actually leave my phone in the bathroom, which is a room just adjacent to ours.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:16:18]:
Yeah.

Drew Rose, DO [00:16:19]:
So if you need to get a hold of me, I can still hear it if it needs to go off, but at the same time, it’s not right next to me.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:16:25]:
Yeah. Let’s bring that back around. So Dr. Rose was a hospitalist for six years.

Drew Rose, DO [00:16:30]:
Six years, not including residency.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:16:32]:
Okay, so let’s talk a little bit about how mental health. I mean, as a hospitalist, what your experience was with assisting patients with mental health in that setting compared to how it is in the outpatient setting.

Drew Rose, DO [00:16:46]:
Yeah. Vastly different. The people that were in the hospital because of mental health crises tend to be more on the severe spectrum. People with schizophrenic breaks, people who were unmedicated, unregulated, bipolar, people who were suicidal because of severe depression, people who are not able to function in the world because of severe anxiety. And, you know, there is a unit for mental health, the bhu, the Behavioral Health unit. Typically, those were the people who were on psych hold for 72 hours because they were either a danger to themselves or danger to Others in society.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:17:23]:
Sure.

Drew Rose, DO [00:17:24]:
So at any given point in time, I, I would have at least one or two, I would say mental health cases on my, my caseload per week. And those people honestly required most of my time compared to the ones who were ill with like sepsis or pneumonia or copd. You know, a lot of, A lot of that medicine became algorithmic, whereas the mental health became highly individualized. And the causes for these triggers or these breaks range from societal, unable to get a job, unable to pay for housing, no support from close loved ones, financial, I mean, all sorts of different things, all the way up to substance abuse and just not having any kind of resources.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:18:17]:
Sure.

Drew Rose, DO [00:18:18]:
So being able to navigate that in the hospital system took more of my own time, as well as time from case managers to try to figure out a safe discharge plan.

Riordan Clinic [00:18:29]:
Sure.

Drew Rose, DO [00:18:30]:
So it was time consuming. And if anything, it really showed the stress that it puts on the healthcare system that we have today.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:18:37]:
Right, right. Which I think still there’s a lot of room for improvement and working with mental health challenges.

Drew Rose, DO [00:18:44]:
Absolutely. I do praise the psychiatrist that we had. It’s not just that consulting them because somebody is sad necessarily, but helping with, you know, the conventional side of medicine and getting those neurotransmitters stabilized. And then the social workers, the unsung heroes of the hospital system.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:19:05]:
Absolutely.

Drew Rose, DO [00:19:06]:
That help with the safety net programs, help with the fallback programs in case something doesn’t work out. And also setting up, follow up. I mean, it takes a ton to be able to get these people back out of the hospital and back out in the real world.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:19:19]:
Sure. And so what I’m hearing obviously from that emergency situation, even for people who are not in an emergent situation, it sounds like it really takes a team.

Drew Rose, DO [00:19:28]:
Yes, absolutely. It takes a team and I would say multiple providers and multiple other healthcare workers that can set these people up for success.

Riordan Clinic [00:19:37]:
Sure.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:19:38]:
And so when we’re talking about our approach here of the testing, you know, there’s ways to actually test levels of neurotransmitters as well. You know, talk to me a little bit about therapy again, in building that team in the outpatient setting for your average person who may have some anxiety or some depression. Talk to me about the importance of therapy.

Drew Rose, DO [00:19:58]:
Therapy is singularly the most important thing in my opinion, when it comes to mental health.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:20:03]:
It’s a big claim.

Drew Rose, DO [00:20:04]:
It is. Words give feelings meaning. And I’m, I’m not. I’m actually very open to the fact that I’ve been in therapy myself. I think it’s something that People should be more open about. And fortunately we’re seeing more, you know, the younger generations especially normalize therapy. But the, the need for a consistent therapist that you’ve and you trust and feel safe with. Finding that therapist can take time. It can be a tedious process. In fact, my very first visit with the therapist I was with for about four and a half years, first appointment, she told me, finding a good therapist is like trying on a good pair of shoes. You have to find the right fit.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:20:44]:
Sure.

Drew Rose, DO [00:20:45]:
So it takes a commitment within yourself to say, I’m going to stick with this person for, you know, four to six weeks and really see how things go. And then also understanding that if you’re not finding that you’re clicking. Well, it’s not a failure. It’s just part of the process to find the next person.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:21:03]:
Yeah. Not all shoes are perfect.

Drew Rose, DO [00:21:04]:
No.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:21:05]:
Right.

Drew Rose, DO [00:21:05]:
The other thing is it takes many weeks, if not months to get out of that cycle of fight or flight or whatever is causing the major mood disorders or negative thought processes. It takes months to get out of the, the autonomic system that keeps you in fight or flight before you can even begin the true work.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:21:27]:
Sure.

Drew Rose, DO [00:21:28]:
So what I’m saying is it’s a time commitment and it is something that is absolutely an investment. And unfortunately, many therapists don’t take certain people’s insurance. And if they do take insurance, there might be a wait list.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:21:40]:
Right.

Drew Rose, DO [00:21:40]:
It is a, it’s an uphill battle that absolutely will pay dividends on the other side.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:21:45]:
Well, and especially when you’re thinking about some of the things that we’ve talked about, we’re talking about some of the biochemical individuality, so nutrient deficiencies, we’re talking about lifestyle factors such as sleep.

Drew Rose, DO [00:21:55]:
Yes.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:21:56]:
And then when you’re able to couple that with therapy as well, just the more you can build again that team or those approaches, it just seems to be such a more complete. Instead of putting a band aid on a situation like an ssri. Not that medications aren’t helpful. They can be incredibly helpful.

Drew Rose, DO [00:22:11]:
Yes, absolutely.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:22:13]:
But when you’re having this team approach and really individualizing things for somebody and building that group, it just seems like a very supportive environment that is going to not only help, help someone get past whatever current acute situation is happening, but then provide them with a better outlook as far as their long term mental health is concerned.

Drew Rose, DO [00:22:31]:
Absolutely. I think when you look at mental health and the road that someone may need to go down to find that true health, it really is looking at every single aspect of somebody’s life. Anything from what are you cooking in the kitchen, what are you putting in your body on a daily basis, how much exercise are you truly getting? Exercise is something we haven’t touched on, but another lifestyle modification that can mean huge benefits for people with mental health issues.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:22:58]:
Yeah.

Drew Rose, DO [00:23:00]:
You know, working out, getting that resistance exercise, getting those endorphins flowing, that has actually had bigger benefits on mental health than, you know, some SSRI studies even.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:23:11]:
That’s correct. Yeah.

Drew Rose, DO [00:23:12]:
So and you can get that almost immediately compared to some SSRIs. Take anywhere between four to eight weeks become to become therapeutic.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:23:20]:
Correct.

Drew Rose, DO [00:23:21]:
So while you’re doing all of these things and trying to find the right therapist, that might take months or so, a day to day thing that people can do is really evaluate what they’re putting into their bodies, try to clean that up as best as possible. Because when you feel better, you think better. And then on top of that, exercise and sleep, those are my biggest things that people can modify today to really find a shortcut, so to speak. Not completely sure, but so to speak to their own mental health.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:23:51]:
Sure. And when you’re optimizing your own biochemistry by eating a diet that’s, you know, high in nutrients and low in and ultra processed foods and sugar. Right, right. You know, low consumption of alcohol.

Drew Rose, DO [00:24:03]:
Right.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:24:03]:
You know, from a cancer perspective, the American Cancer Society recommends no more than a drink a day for men and no more than two drinks a week for women.

Drew Rose, DO [00:24:11]:
Right.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:24:12]:
And so, you know, moderate alcohol consumption because again, alcohol is one of those things. Yes. It’s a diuretic, but it also carries certain nutrients out like those B vitamins that we are alluding to earlier on. And so I feel like building this approach really helps really lay the found foundation for someone who when they do find that therapist.

Drew Rose, DO [00:24:33]:
Yes.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:24:33]:
That all of the other things are working in their favor and they’re actually going to get results faster than if they were only doing therapy or only correcting the nutritional deficiencies.

Drew Rose, DO [00:24:42]:
You’re essentially healing the foundation of who you are before you get deep into that work. And that is honestly going to give you so many steps ahead compared to if you didn’t start that work today.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:24:53]:
And not only are you helping yourself from a mental emotional aspect, but I’m assuming all of those positive changes have positive physical ramifications as well.

Drew Rose, DO [00:25:02]:
Absolutely. You can see changes in your own biochemistry based off the labs that we do. You feel better, your gut health is better. Just everything starts working more like a well oiled machine, essentially.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:25:15]:
Yeah, absolutely. And then lastly I have to ask you about this because I know that OMM is one of the things that you are very passionate about.

Drew Rose, DO [00:25:22]:
I am, yes.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:25:23]:
So can you talk to me? You know, when I think of OMM or when other. So one, if you can talk just a little bit about what OMM is and two, people may think of it as physical modality, maybe to help with headaches or, or physical complaints. But can you talk about it from the mental emotional aspect?

Drew Rose, DO [00:25:39]:
Absolutely. So OMN refers to osteopathic manipulative medicine. We do have a podcast on that as well. But in short, it is hands on techniques that can change barriers within the physical body just so things are flowing better, essentially. So that’s my elevator speech of what OMM is, but is speaking from a mental health standp. There are techniques that work on the cranium itself that help with that cerebral spinal, that craniosacral connection, essentially. And when you open up the flow of the fluid, there’s something that I believe is Dr. Sutherford coined as the tide. It’s basically that life force within you. Osteopaths have practices consistently over years, decades. I mean it changes and evolves the longer we practice this. But that tide is that life force that you can tell with certain people that have mental health disorders that tide is weak or it doesn’t, it’s not balanced, or it’s just not feeling like it’s vitalized. Doing things like a CB4 release, you know, opening up that cranial ventricle, the fourth cranial ventricle, and releasing that fresh cerebral spinal fluid from the brain down into the spine. It’s nutrition. It is nutrition. Not just for the nerves, it’s not nutrition just for the body. It’s carrying away the toxins, but it’s also nutrition for that type. And I’ve actually worked on people who have, you know, refractory depression or bipolar as well as schizophrenia. And doing some of these cranial techniques can be incredibly powerful for those who don’t completely understand what level I’m talking about right now. The other thing I always tell people, never underestimate the power of touch. The power of touch in and of itself can release things like oxytocin, which is that feel good hormone.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:27:33]:
Sure.

Drew Rose, DO [00:27:34]:
And helps people feel connected.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:27:36]:
Yeah.

Drew Rose, DO [00:27:36]:
True connection, whether it be with loved ones, friends, you know, a provider that you trust, a therapist that you trust that provides safety to the nervous system and helps you heal.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:27:47]:
Yeah. So, last question. So final takeaways if someone, you know wants to make some changes today in our world that can help to improve their mental health. Maybe they’re not having frank depression or anxiety, but they’re just feeling a little blah. What would be some of the highlights? Maybe three quick things that you would.

Drew Rose, DO [00:28:07]:
Three quick things. First and foremost, touch grass. This is actually been proven scientifically to be able to elevate your mood. It may not be something you go outside and oh, everything is better. But you get outside in that kind of darkness that that funk that you’re in starts to dissipate. It may not be all the way gone, but you can think a little bit clearer. 2. Really evaluate your diet. Really evaluate your diet. I am not kidding. You literally are what you eat and if you put good nutrition into your body, your body will feel better, which can actually make you think better. It stabilizes your mood. And then third biggest one, Sleep hygiene. Sleep hygiene is something I actually give my co owners free reign to Google. What is sleep hygiene? What are some things that are recommended in sleep hygiene? Perfect. Yeah, that right there I think is going to give you a huge leg up on your own controlling and feeling empowered and being able to have some control over your own mental health.

Michelle Niesley, ND, MS, FABNO [00:29:07]:
Yeah. And again, just taking off from that. Not only in your own mental health, but your physical well being. Yes, yes, all around. So thank you so much for taking time to speak with me about this.

Drew Rose, DO [00:29:16]:
Absolutely. Thank you.

Riordan Clinic [00:29:19]:
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