In this episode of the Real Health Podcast, we welcome back Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO—an integrative oncology expert at Riordan Clinic—alongside special guest Jenn Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP, owner and oncology nutrition consultant at Remission Nutrition. Together, they address your questions and share valuable insights from their experience supporting patients through integrative cancer care.
Thanks to This Episode’s Sponsor
Riordan Clinic Nutrient Store: https://store.riordanclinic.org/
Links
Learn more about the hosts:
Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO : https://riordanclinic.org/staff/kirsten-west-nd-lac-fabno/
Jen Nolan: https://www.remissionnutrition.com/jennolan
Learn more about Riordan Clinic: https://riordanclinic.org/
Interested in becoming a Patient: https://riordanclinic.org/request-an-appointment/
Disclaimer: The information contained on the Real Health Podcast and the resources mentioned are for educational purposes only. They’re not intended as and shall not be understood or construed as medical or health advice. The information contained on this podcast is not a substitute for medical or health advice from a professional who is aware of the facts and circumstances of your individual situation. Information provided by hosts and guests on the Real Health Podcast or the use of any products or services mentioned does not create a practitioner-patient relationship between you and any persons affiliated with this podcast.
Read the Transcript
00:00:00:00 – 00:00:24:13
Narrator
This is the Real Health podcast brought to you by Riordan Clinic. Our mission is to bring you the latest information and top experts in functional and integrative medicine to help you make informed decisions on your path to real health. Welcome back to the Real Health Podcast and part two of our special series, An Integrative Approach to Thriving Through Cancer.
00:00:24:15 – 00:00:47:08
Narrator
Featuring our own doctor, Kristen West and Jen Nolan of her mission, Nutrition. If you haven’t been able to listen to part one yet, we highly encourage you to go back and start there. In today’s episode, we continue exploring your submitted questions, touching on everything from advanced lab testing to emotional resilience supplements and personalized strategies for healing. Let’s jump back in, shall we?
00:00:47:10 – 00:01:09:15
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Okay, well, this is one that, I think we both get quite a bit. So, first of all, this this person said, thank you for providing this forum. I had a neighbor that swears that she passed multiple tumors by going on a freshly juiced, 100% carrot juice diet. Is there nutrition science data about this?
00:01:09:17 – 00:01:40:00
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
I mean yes. And I’m wondering how orange neighbor was. Yeah. Yeah definitely. Juice equals sugar. It’s kind of simple to me. I think about when people tell me that they’re juicing. I try to explain that that is sort of like adding. It’s like taking a shot of sugar through the veins. Boom. Your blood sugar is going to go up quite rapidly.
00:01:40:02 – 00:02:02:01
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
You have no fiber in the juice to slow down your blood sugar load. And we want to remember that, you know, blood sugar or metabolic health is at the core of our health and a cancer journey. So that’s a big one. Yes. We talk about juicing all the time. People do talk about, well, if I had these nutrients that come just from the juice.
00:02:02:01 – 00:02:26:10
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
So I’ve squeezed out, I take this raw food and I squeeze out the fiber, then that those nutrients will go right in to my body. And maybe some of that is a little bit true. But what where I question is, wait a minute, the fiber is there to help this. The digestion slow down. So we have the opportunity to drop the nutrients.
00:02:26:11 – 00:02:52:20
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
Right? And what about this? I was going to. Oh, the fact that we need fat in our diet. We need fat with the food to absorb these nutrients. So vitamins A, D, E and K, or fat soluble, not to mention all the other micronutrients that we get, these phytonutrients and other things we need fat to absorb. And so we can’t just have this sugar from the juice.
00:02:52:22 – 00:03:14:19
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
Right. And so you know what I would say is what if we talked about these solutions. And I love your solution around green drinks. Like if somebody is really insistent like I really want to take in juice okay. Then we’re going straight up greens okay. And we don’t need a big bottle in a plastic bottle, but we don’t need a big bottle of juice.
00:03:15:00 – 00:03:30:06
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
What about little shot. Yeah. And what about adding it with some olive oil that will slow down the sugar load to the body. It will help the body absorb those nutrients. And we won’t get a big, massive exercise. Exercise before or.
00:03:30:06 – 00:03:30:23
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Exercise.
00:03:30:23 – 00:03:33:16
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
After. Keep your apples out of it. I’m sorry.
00:03:33:21 – 00:03:36:05
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Juice and green apples do not count.
00:03:36:06 – 00:03:55:16
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
No, they’re very carby or very sugary. So that is really, really important. I love, like we talked about with the olive oil. We can also just. I’m like, just Linda. Yeah. So just dump all your stuff into a good blender. Yeah. And then you get the fiber. So I do that a lot. I still don’t just have that though.
00:03:55:22 – 00:04:14:20
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
I would still put some fat in it. And, make it almost more of a meal or maybe with a meal. So I have a zingy green drink I think I’ve shared in maybe a newsletter, but we can put that in the show too, just so people can find that great, great nutrition. Very high sugar. Yeah. If it’s not done right.
00:04:14:22 – 00:04:19:10
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
Totally. Okay. Totally awesome.
00:04:19:12 – 00:04:46:00
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
And you can add on to to the question that was earlier about the circulating tumor cell DNA. I just realized that, you know, some people might say, well, why not get a scan? You know, like if the tumor markers are going up, why not just get a scan? And the problem is, is that when disease may start to recur or you’re in the initial cancer process, a lot of times that disease is not going to be large enough to see on an image on imaging.
00:04:46:02 – 00:04:54:19
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
So it’s much better to utilize other ways to determine if a scan is really actually needed or not.
00:04:54:21 – 00:04:57:13
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
So yeah.
00:04:57:15 – 00:05:06:14
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Okay. This was one we both liked. So someone asked five best steps for cancer prevention. What would you say in the.
00:05:06:14 – 00:05:38:21
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
Chat that was on. Well I think this is one is really paying attention to your stress, your kind of mental emotional wellbeing. Your support system, your community, you know, being social and not, you know, it’s okay to have some time. I always say it’s okay to, like, fall apart and lie down on the bed or the couch or whatever, and then having to lift ourselves up and get with people, and that’s that’s huge.
00:05:38:23 – 00:05:59:18
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
You know, avoiding processed foods, decreasing sugar and carbohydrates. Again, everybody’s different and how much they can handle. And the carbohydrate, you know, place. But I think no matter what, in order to achieve metabolic health we got to bring our carbs down. Oh, yeah. So that’s important. And then if we can do some fasting every day, that’s beautiful.
00:05:59:18 – 00:06:26:07
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
I can’t tell you how many clients eat at night. Yeah. And simply taking three hours dinner to bedtime without food. Camomile tea? Water? Yeah. In the evenings without food. It’s hugely beneficial. We see it all the time in labs. Like, that’s something that you can just see. So 13 to 16 hours without food is a good target. I usually start people at 13 to 14 hours and like, let’s just do this.
00:06:26:10 – 00:06:41:17
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
Get your body used to it because this isn’t about torturing people. It’s about finding, you know, that balance and being really kind of gentle with your body because you’re already going through a lot. So be gentle, but start making these changes that are going to last.
00:06:41:20 – 00:07:01:16
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Yeah. And I think even someone could take if they’re very used to eating at night, like start with two nights where you’re like, okay, I’m going to start two nights doing this because the more that you realize that you’re going to be okay not eating for that three hours between dinner and bedtime, then you start to be like, okay, maybe I can do a couple more days a week.
00:07:01:18 – 00:07:17:05
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
And you know, the thing we used to always say 13 hours, there is a study that came out, I think, two years ago that actually says 16 hours really is the best amount of time. But I think of all of us, 13 hours is doable. So if we all start with 13 hours, we’re we’re better off totally.
00:07:17:06 – 00:07:35:05
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
And, you know, back to that night, that evening thing, if you’re eating in the evenings, like a lot of people eat popcorn or, you know, maybe fruit, things like that go with those are very high carbs. So that’s going to just be brutal or can be on your sleep and your your blood sugar regulation and all the things.
00:07:35:05 – 00:07:38:02
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
So if you are going to have something, have a hard boiled.
00:07:38:04 – 00:07:38:17
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Right.
00:07:38:17 – 00:07:44:01
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
Or some really high quality nut butter, something with fat and protein, well, that’ll be a lot.
00:07:44:03 – 00:07:58:11
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
And that becomes an issue because I have patients who are like, well, I have to take pills at night. Exactly. So and I have to eat something. And then that’s when I’m like, well, what about a tablespoon of macadamia nut butter with your pills, you know, so there’s ways we can work around it. Yeah.
00:07:58:12 – 00:08:01:22
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
So yeah. Yeah. Perfect.
00:08:01:24 – 00:08:27:16
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Okay. I might it’s one of my favorite ones. We had gone through these last night, but, exercise is one of my very, very favorites. My patients know this. I always tell them that if I had a choice between pristine diet supplements or exercise, exercise would be the number one thing. And the studies are now confirm I mean, their studies just they’ve always confirmed it, but they just continue to confirm it and do 150 minutes a week really is ideal.
00:08:27:16 – 00:08:52:05
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
But we have to remember that at least. So. And really guys, that comes down to 30 minutes five days a week. Very doable. We also don’t want to overdo it because again, we’re in this, you know, mindset. I think in American mentality of, well, more is better. More is better. We don’t need to be overdoing it either, because too much exercise can cause oxidative stress, especially if someone’s not eating well, especially if someone doesn’t have enough weight on to begin with.
00:08:52:07 – 00:09:18:00
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
So you really do need to fine tune it for the individual. I do think that getting some form of resistance training in there is imperative for our muscles and our bones, especially as we get older. Walking is beautiful, but we do need to get something that’s giving that stimulation to our muscles to grow and stay strong. And so cash resistance training can come in so many flavors yoga, Pilates, resistance bands.
00:09:18:04 – 00:09:36:10
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
If you like doing weight training, do some weight training with dumbbells, anything that you love, that’s the key. You got to find something that you love because if you don’t, you’re not going to stick with it. And I had a friend who always said, you never you always hear people go, gosh, I really wish I would have gone to the gym.
00:09:36:12 – 00:10:03:07
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
But you never hear someone go, oh, man, I really wish I hadn’t gone to the gym. Of course, unless something happens at the gym. Like. But yeah, so very important. And again, once you get in the habit of doing it, it becomes something that you you want to become a healthy addicted to that. And then the one that I, you know, I, I really I think about this a lot and I think about this the more and more that we’re in our society and the more that we’re behind screens.
00:10:03:07 – 00:10:26:15
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
But I think something that is so important that so many fail to do or don’t have the opportunity to do, and maybe opportunity is the key is to commune with nature. I mean, we are very much in suburban areas, cities, we are in offices or behind screens. And there really is something about being in nature, being outside. A great example of this is just being around trees.
00:10:26:15 – 00:10:46:19
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Trees themselves put off. A component called fitness lights. And those actually improve our immune function, support mood and decrease stress. And so this is why in Japan they actually prescribe forest bathing, which is actually going out and being in the trees. Because it it is therapeutic. It is therapeutic.
00:10:46:21 – 00:10:48:12
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
So a tree have.
00:10:48:12 – 00:11:02:15
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Trees or something to it. So so to sum it up, exercise, forage in the forest with your tribe, the people that fill your heart the most. And then, you know, eat.
00:11:02:20 – 00:11:04:07
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
Eat whole foods.
00:11:04:09 – 00:11:11:08
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
And just really get back to our roots. I think that really, when you come down to all of this, it’s about coming back to our roots in the foundation.
00:11:11:10 – 00:11:34:21
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
In the green. So we do have, Sarah on her team, that is, she specializes in oncology and nutrition, but she also is, certified in, exercise training for folks with cancer, which is really cool. So we, you know, it can be done safely. It’s still remote, but she can look at what what do you have at your house?
00:11:34:21 – 00:11:48:14
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
What do you have? What bands do you have? What does one do? And then she can really help people really meet them where they are and what their needs are, because that can be scary exercise when somebody’s really not feeling it. Yeah, it’s also the best thing.
00:11:48:18 – 00:11:58:06
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
It’s also the best thing. And that’s the thing is I tell people they’re like, I’m too tired. And I’m like, but if you can get out and start moving, you’re actually going to feel better.
00:11:58:08 – 00:11:58:20
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
It’s a.
00:11:58:22 – 00:11:59:02
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Big.
00:11:59:02 – 00:11:59:19
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
Paradox.
00:11:59:19 – 00:12:01:21
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
It is, but it does help.
00:12:01:23 – 00:12:03:11
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
Yeah. But yeah.
00:12:03:13 – 00:12:21:24
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
And then it made me think of one other thing. When I was at the mistletoe conference, about a month ago, one of the German doctors was speaking about how in the hospitals in Germany, people who have windows in their hospital rooms actually survive significantly longer. So that tells you something right there.
00:12:22:01 – 00:12:38:22
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
So it’s got to be true. Yeah, I believe it. Yeah. That’s neat. So another question is, is there a link between fungus and cancer? What foods we avoid, like coffee, fruits, question mark.
00:12:38:24 – 00:13:17:16
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Yeah. I do think that there is a link between fungus and cancer. If any of you would watch the podcast. Doctor Ron and I did a couple months ago regarding the fungal link in cancer, you all will know that and maybe go back and listen to it. But the thought is, is the thought of a co-infection and bottom line is, is if our terrain is not set up to be healthy and to be in balance, we create a situation where if we are exposed to fungus or mycotoxins or other pathogens, they have the ability to kind of take root because they’re like, well, this is a good time because, you know, there’s a lot
00:13:17:16 – 00:13:44:04
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
of inflammation and there’s blood sugar issues, things that we normally should be able to fight off. We can’t. And so there’s this concept. And a man by the name of Mark Linton also who was he did a podcast with Doctor on amazing amazing man. I think he’s really onto something. But his theory is that fungus will cause an infection, and the cell originally tries to go into like almost the Warburg effect.
00:13:44:04 – 00:14:05:04
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
This is what cells do when they’re trying to evade pathogen. But if the cell isn’t strong enough to get past the pathogen, it stays in this negative feedback loop of being in glycolysis. And we know that that’s what cancer cells do. They stay in this Warburg glycolytic pathway. And so the fungus actually ends up using that to its advantage.
00:14:05:04 – 00:14:06:02
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
And it becomes this.
00:14:06:07 – 00:14:06:22
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
This.
00:14:06:24 – 00:14:30:16
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Constant co-infection that just stays and so there’s a thought that the fungus could actually be causing greater cell growth and greater cell growth and eventually form a tumor. There’s so much more to it. There’s a quote that I put here, this this is from Mark Linton that I thought really drove it home. But he says sustained intracellular fungal infection.
00:14:30:18 – 00:14:53:07
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Maybe the origin of cancer generated through the mechanism of cell suppression and stimulated into being a myriad of carcinogens that prime the cellular terrain for fungal invasion, so that says it right there. So when we think about that, we do do a lot of mycotoxins or mold testing at the clinic. And I do see levels. I do see levels elevated in a lot of my cancer patients.
00:14:53:10 – 00:15:18:00
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
And, at that point, we do talk about there’s lots of things we talk about, but we do talk about dietary intake. And there things we talk about being mindful of. We definitely want to be careful of cheese and sour milk products, dried fruit grains packaged in smoked meats, and then the nuts that we really want to be careful of are cashews, peanuts and Brazil nuts.
00:15:18:02 – 00:15:42:02
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
And so the other thing that’s so interesting about this is that when we do go lower carb, as we tend to promote for someone dealing with cancer, we tend to get away from a lot of the grains and the foods that can be mold laden. And so you’re going to wonder about, well, when we’re doing ketogenic or when we’re doing low carb, are we also treating mold by doing that?
00:15:42:02 – 00:15:53:03
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
So it’s just an interesting thing to think about in addition to a fact that a lot, a lot of the repurposed drugs that we use for cancer also happen to be anti mold anti-fungal stuff.
00:15:53:05 – 00:15:59:13
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
And you know, what about we talked a little bit about mushrooms. What are your thoughts.
00:15:59:15 – 00:16:26:01
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
I mushrooms are probably one of my favorite supplements. And so the supplemental form of mushrooms are okay if someone comes up with high mycotoxins or mold levels. The supplemental forms of mushrooms are okay. The edible forms of fungi? Potentially not. But I do wonder if the reason we just need to be mindful of them is not because they will really stimulate mold growth so much as they will just come back high in the mycotoxins panels.
00:16:26:06 – 00:16:38:17
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
And that’s kind of a gray area. There might be people there. There’s probably people out there who know that I, I’m still kind of like trying to figure that out. And I think part of it is because I have such a love for mushrooms that maybe I don’t want to know that.
00:16:38:19 – 00:16:40:02
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
They could.
00:16:40:04 – 00:16:41:14
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Promote further growth of.
00:16:41:16 – 00:16:51:06
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
Mold. So yeah. Gotcha. I also think that, you know, the when people are buying berries or they’re buying the little microgreens are sprout.
00:16:51:06 – 00:16:52:16
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Yes, yes.
00:16:52:21 – 00:16:56:14
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
That always makes me nervous when I get them home and you’re like oh no.
00:16:56:14 – 00:16:58:04
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Yeah. And there’s always that one berry in.
00:16:58:04 – 00:16:59:09
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
There that just wrecks that.
00:16:59:09 – 00:17:00:09
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
You’re like, oh great.
00:17:00:09 – 00:17:11:04
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
So yeah, you know, storage of our foods our nuts and seeds in glass containers. Airtight holds. Yes. Quality coffee that big. You know, you.
00:17:11:04 – 00:17:15:00
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Can even buy like, more yet more tested coffee at this point. Yeah.
00:17:15:02 – 00:17:31:19
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
And some of that, one of the things too, when we’re talking about like you brought up the no lower carb, you know, diet or ketogenic, but also, you know, we see people really leaning into a lot of nuts and seeds. Yeah. And so we’re always like, you know, maybe not so much. You don’t have to just rely on that.
00:17:31:19 – 00:17:45:11
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
Let’s get really good veg and really great protein and really great fats. And then you don’t have to be just constantly munching on nuts and seeds. Yeah. So that would lower the exposure. Yeah for sure. Yeah.
00:17:45:13 – 00:17:51:04
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
So those are some. Oh and alcohol of course and fermented foods to stay away from.
00:17:51:06 – 00:17:54:10
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
So yeah.
00:17:54:12 – 00:17:58:14
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
All right. Gosh there’s a whole other world on the mold piece that we could go and do.
00:17:58:18 – 00:18:01:07
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
So I’m glad that there’s podcast that.
00:18:01:09 – 00:18:22:04
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Yeah yeah there’s two podcasts the Linton and then Doctor Run and I. So oh and there’s so many, there’s so many others out there. So how many or how healthy are smoothies? How healthy are smoothies? Do they really have nutrients in them? How much sugar does fruit really have in it? Why is it okay to eat fruit but not sure.
00:18:22:06 – 00:18:47:07
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
I love this question. But typically when I think about a smoothie I think high sugar. And typically when you go to a smoothie shop, high sugar. High sugar. Right. And so a lot of clients like to have, what I would call a shake. And we can utilize a shake especially for folks that we want to really, you know, increase their calories so we can get a lot of fat into those shakes.
00:18:47:09 – 00:19:03:10
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
So it really depends on what you put in it. That makes it maybe more healthy or not so healthy. So, you know, using fruit like berries, these are going to be going to be lower sugar fruits, some berries not like a cup or two.
00:19:03:12 – 00:19:04:23
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
And cherries don’t count.
00:19:05:00 – 00:19:26:02
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
Sad. I just wore a continuous glucose monitor and I saw it a couple. It turned into my blood sugar. It’s crazy. And we’re all different, right? So everybody can take in different things. But generally like instead of a banana, I will use a half of an avocado. Put that in great fiber, great fat right. And creamy. So you get that creamy texture.
00:19:26:02 – 00:19:44:22
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
Then I add some frozen varies depending on what I’ve got. I use organic berries and they’re lovely, but I again don’t use too many. And then I’m not a gal who likes to put a lot of green things into my smoothie because it really makes it ugly. And I’m just a brown. Yeah it’s very brown and yeah.
00:19:44:22 – 00:20:05:20
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
So I don’t do that. Not to mention some people do have trouble with having too many of those green veg, especially spinach because of those which you know, that’s a whole other question on its own. So we fruit does have a lot of sugar. Fruit juice has a lot more. Again, it’s more glycemic. It’s going to raise the blood sugar.
00:20:05:22 – 00:20:31:08
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
So watching which fruits you choose berries over say bananas or apple juice. I think the cherries, things like that. So, that’s it is okay to eat fruit and why? Because there’s all these amazing bite of nutrient and fruit. Yeah. Color. Think eat the rainbow. Yeah, right. The purples, the reds, all these anti-cancer nutrients. Food as medicine.
00:20:31:10 – 00:20:57:23
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
And it also has sugar. So we have to remember to not go overboard and not to have it by itself. So that’s where a sort of one of these shakes is kind of perfect. We look at the macronutrients right. Is there fat information. Is there carbohydrate maybe not too much. And is there protein. And protein is a struggle because protein powders another conversation can be really tough on the digestion.
00:20:58:00 – 00:21:15:22
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
There’s ingredients in them that are not that spectacular, right. So for me, I will make my little shake. I’m going to do that or make it into a smoothie bowl. So I eat it with a spoon. And then I might have a couple of hard boiled eggs in the side for my protein. Yeah. So chewing a smoothie is really important for shake.
00:21:16:00 – 00:21:28:19
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
Yeah. For blood sugar. Yep. So not just gulping it down. Exactly. Perfect. Yes. Awesome. All right. This is kind of our finale.
00:21:28:20 – 00:21:30:09
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Yeah.
00:21:30:11 – 00:21:45:00
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
If I’m trying to prevent cancer, how important is it to quit eating dairy and gluten? What’s the best alternative in milks? Almond, oat milk.
00:21:45:02 – 00:22:01:24
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
So again, it’s a little bit of a gray area as far as the Dairy Beast is concerned. But yes, I do think that it is important to quit eating dairy and gluten. When we think about now, there’s a caveat to the dairy piece that let’s just dial back here for a second. When we think about what dairy is, dairy is from milk.
00:22:02:01 – 00:22:26:12
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
And what is milk supposed to do? Milk is created to grow something larger. And if we are at risk for cancer, if we’re worried about cancer, if we already have cancer or about a history of cancer, we really don’t want that message of we need to grow. And so this is where absolutely no milk, I don’t know, drinking milk.
00:22:26:12 – 00:22:45:24
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
I don’t care if it’s sheep’s milk. Goat’s milk, cow’s milk. There was actually a study coming that came out that showed that one glass of milk a day significantly increased risk of breast cancer, specifically hormonal positive breast cancer. So there’s the piece about milk. Now there are some milk, some types of dairy, not milk, some types of dairy that may be okay.
00:22:46:05 – 00:23:03:24
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
And it’s because of their the content. Some of these are heavy whipping cream. Again you want to make sure you’re getting it from grass finished cows not just get grass fed cows but grass finished. And grass finished means that those cows have been pasture raised their entire life. So you want to get heavy whipping cream from that population of cows.
00:23:04:01 – 00:23:19:09
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Cottage cheese is okay as well. And then sheep and goats milk is actually pretty good. And I, I find it personally easier to digest. It also has higher levels of certain fatty acids and it’s got some more nutrients.
00:23:19:11 – 00:23:21:08
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
So sheep and goat, cheese.
00:23:21:12 – 00:23:41:11
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Sheep and goat cheese. Sheep and goat cheese. Yep. Not milk. Not milk. No milk. And then, definitely avoid fake cheese. I mean, a lot of people go, oh, gosh, I just really need a cheese. So I found this cheese at the store and, it tastes good. And but if you if people looked at the packages on these things, it’s all processed.
00:23:41:11 – 00:23:43:05
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
So here we go. Getting back to the processed.
00:23:43:05 – 00:23:44:04
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
Food and this aspect.
00:23:44:08 – 00:24:10:08
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
And the seed oils and the seed oils. So I really try to avoid those now. Yeah. Some of you know some of these nut milks may be okay. We talked about this. But I, you know, I’d probably steer towards coconut milk. Almond milk in moderation. Macadamia nut milk, hemp milk, walnut are now making walnut milk and hazelnut milk.
00:24:10:08 – 00:24:33:06
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
But a good milk you’re going to know it at the store. If you look at the carton, it says just simply the nuts and the water. Nothing else added. But this is also the fact that why would you actually need this if you could just make your own nut milk at home? I mean, I know that some of us are limited for time, but if you’re using it as a base in a smoothie, you could just add your nuts and water right in that smoothie and get your nut milk.
00:24:33:06 – 00:24:52:05
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
And that’s what I do. I don’t buy it anymore and it saves money and it also saves the environment. You’re not buying these cartons all the things. So I guess it depends on what you need the milk for, right. But yeah, I don’t really buy it anymore. I used to have quite a lot and that works. There’s this really great thing that I used to fantasize about called the Almond Cow.
00:24:52:07 – 00:25:08:07
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
If you seen it, it’s a nut milk maker. Oh, and it’s great. And then you can use the nut, the part that it’s kind of like, you know, you use the nut pieces for other things. You could make some low heat crackers or something like that. So kind of cool. I don’t I have.
00:25:08:07 – 00:25:09:06
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
All these toys out there.
00:25:09:07 – 00:25:18:05
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
Now. It’s great. Yeah. So what about, you know, we talked a little bit about that gluten piece. What is your thoughts?
00:25:18:07 – 00:25:19:18
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Oh, yeah. The gluten piece.
00:25:20:17 – 00:25:50:02
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
So yes, I think we absolutely need to abstain from gluten specifically in our country. The gluten proteins in this country are completely different than how they originally were. Genetically are genetically modified. Track in this country has really changed what these proteins look like. And they do incite autoimmune patterns and issues. And so it really is important to stay away from gluten.
00:25:50:04 – 00:26:07:06
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
You know, I have people who say, you know, but I, I don’t have issues with it. And it’s like, but it’s still it, it’s better. And it also gets you away from where the carbs and more of the processed foods. In addition, I’m an omega six that. Yeah. And so sourdough bread. What are your thoughts on sour dough bread.
00:26:07:08 – 00:26:09:17
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
Well I mean it’s delicious.
00:26:09:19 – 00:26:10:02
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Yeah.
00:26:10:06 – 00:26:30:09
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
So there is a fermenting process with sourdough breads. And so if somebody is making it in their kitchen, they would argue that while I’m making it there’s three ingredients, which is that’s lovely compared to what you might get in a store. And it’s this old sour dough and all the things. And I’m using really old grains, you know, these, amazing grains.
00:26:30:09 – 00:26:50:24
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
And sure, we know that the fermenting process will take down some of the gluten proteins. Maybe. Yes, but it’s still there. And so if somebody were super sensitive, again, like celiac disease, they are not going to be able to have sourdough bread. Autoimmune. Yeah. Conditions. We do not want to add any kind of fuel to the fire.
00:26:51:01 – 00:27:02:23
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
And and again, you’re right, it’s still can’t it’s still quite right. And so it does make me feel like being in particular with someone with cancer. Yet I’m not I’m not going to go there.
00:27:03:00 – 00:27:23:11
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
And I think what we need to be mindful of, and this is something Nisha Wynter just talked about years ago. I mean, she’s I’ve learned so much from her. This is one of the things that I will forever have with me, along with other things. But, you know, we think about people who are sensitive to gluten or have an actual allergy to gluten, and they’re like, especially for my patients.
00:27:23:11 – 00:27:42:10
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
They’re like, well, I’m sensitive to gluten because most of the people are allergic. Just really do stay away from it. But they’re sensitive and they’re like, but I was so good this month. I just had a little roll with dinner. And it’s like, but the way we have to think about it is a swimming pool full of mousetraps that are ready to go off, and you throw a ping pong ball in that swimming pool, and that’s the piece of gluten.
00:27:42:14 – 00:27:59:13
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
And it sets off a process which lasts for about six months. So okay, fine. You had one roll in one month, but now you’re going to be your body’s going to be dealing with that for the next 6 to 7 months. So really when we talk about abstaining from something, it really does mean abstaining from something.
00:27:59:15 – 00:28:12:00
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
Well yeah. And they might not know I have a problem with it. Right. Because maybe it shows up in their labs, like you said, six months. It might take. So they might not break out into a crazy rash, but they might still be impacted.
00:28:12:00 – 00:28:19:08
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
And you know, there’s so many things that we’re exposed to or that we do that we may not feel, but the labs don’t lie.
00:28:19:14 – 00:28:19:22
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
Yeah.
00:28:19:24 – 00:28:23:04
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
And I see that all the time in January and February.
00:28:23:06 – 00:28:46:10
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
But I think it’s important really quickly to just say, you know, gluten free is a great label that everyone’s using now you can go to a restaurant. However, gluten free can still mean that it’s not healthy. It’s still powerful. Tons of like rice, pastas, and so being really careful with that, it’s not just gluten, it’s lowering your carbohydrates, your omega six, your process.
00:28:46:10 – 00:28:50:08
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
It’s go back to that list of the five things. Yeah. You know. Yeah.
00:28:50:10 – 00:28:57:20
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Well and also when they do gluten free they take out so much of the fiber. So a lot of those gluten free products actually tend to be higher glycemic index.
00:28:57:20 – 00:29:11:12
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
Super sugary. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And glycemic just to clarify means sort of how quickly that food is going to turn to sugar in your body. Yeah yeah yeah.
00:29:11:14 – 00:29:21:19
Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
So I think those are the final questions. We had some more, but due to time we can’t dive into those. But hopefully this will be one of more and we can answer the other ones.
00:29:21:21 – 00:29:31:07
Jen Nolan, BS, MS, ONC, TAP
So it’s been a pleasure to be here. So fun. Thank you. Yeah yeah. Till next time.
00:29:31:09 – 00:29:56:13
Narrator
Thank you so much for joining us for this two part series, An Integrative Approach to Thriving Through Cancer. We are so grateful to Doctor West and Jen Nolan for sharing their expertise. And to everyone who submitted questions. These conversations are made richer by you, the voices of our community. To learn more about Integrative Oncology at Riordan Clinic or to explore John’s work at Remission Nutrition, please check out the episode notes.
00:29:56:15 – 00:30:29:20
Narrator
Until then, we’ll see you next time on the Real Health podcast. Thank you for listening to the Real Health podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and leave us a review. You can also find all of the episodes in show notes over at Real Health podcast.org. Also, be sure to visit Riordan clinic.org, where you will find hundreds of videos and articles to help you create your own version of real health.
