Resetting Cancer at the Cellular Level with Ilyes Baghli, MD

Riordan Clinic [00:00:00]:
Hello and welcome to the Real Health Podcast. Today’s episode might sound a little bit different because I want to tell you about our Cancer Care Reimagined Speaker Series. When we began planning our 25th International Conference on Human Functioning, Dr. Ron Hunninghake sat down and created his dream team of speakers. Now, we reached out to all of them and we were so delighted that they all said yes. These speakers are leaders in integrative oncology, functional medicine, and research who are truly shaping the future of cancer care. Each week leading up to the conference will feature one of these extraordinary experts right here on the Real Health Podcast. They will be sharing insights, innovation and inspiration to help you reimagine what’s possible in cancer care. Now, this series and the upcoming Conference and Gala would not be possible without the generous support of our presenting partner, Empower. Did you know that Empower is the most advanced compounding and 503 outsourcing facility in the nation? They’re licensed to serve in all 50 states and they are deeply committed to improving access to safe, affordable and personalized medication for the patients, providers and caregivers who rely on them. Their belief is simple but powerful. Behind every order is a person in need. And with that knowledge, they approach everything they do with compassion, innovation and a drive for excellence. We are so grateful for their partnership and their support of this important conversation around Reimagining Cancer Care. Now, if you’re looking for tickets that they are on sale now and you can go to our website at cancercarereimagined.org. You can also find tickets for our 50th Anniversary Gala at cancercarereimagined.org/gala. Now these links will be posted in the show notes below. We hope that you will join us here in Wichita this November for both unforgettable events.

Ron Hunninghake, MD [00:01:44]:
So this is Dr. Ron Hunninghake again and this is the Real Health Podcast and we welcome you back. And we are getting set up for our 25th international conference coming up in November. And this will be the 50th anniversary of the Riordan Clinic. And we are so privileged today to have Dr. Ilyes Baghli, MD from Algiers with us. And I’ve known Dr. Baghli for many years. We, we, we go back into the whole realm of orthomolecular medicine. And so maybe I could just ask you, Dr. Baghli, how did you get interested in nutrition and nutritional therapies and vitamin C and that type of stuff? I know you’re going to be one of our presenters, but before we get to your presentation topic, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Ilyes Baghli, MD [00:02:34]:
Hello, Ron, thank you for this kind invitation. I will be very glad to be with you in November. And about my beginning in nutrition and orthomolecular medicine, it was around 29 in Salzburg in Austria. I go there for a training about nutrition and orthomolecular medicine because in 26 I learned about orthomolecular medicine. So I start learning about it in Algiers in Algeria. And next we go to the second step to have global training with teacher doctors from Austria. And when we finish this training, we create in Algeria the Algerian Society for Nutrition and Orthomolecular Medicine. But something happened and I know it’s later when I was in Toronto, when I met you at the first time in 2017 that we create listen, the Algerian Society for Nutrition and for Orthomolecular Medicine in May, I think 27, 29, at the same moment when Abram Hoffer passed away. And when I shared this to his son, that he was also a professor in biology, Hoffer he told me like he give you the torch because it’s amazing that he passed away at the moment, the day, at the hour, at the minute when you created your society. So there is a lot of like situation, I will say intrication. It’s like we. We know without having contact before and this is amazing. And you know the second step that we start doing training in Algiers. We invite Dr. Atsuo Nagasawa, Dr. Thomas Levy, Dr. Nina Mikirova in 2016. And we have a great challenge and we are member of ESAM. And in 2023 I was proposed to be the new president of International Society for Orthomolecular Medicine (ISOM) 1 June 2023 in Rio, in Sao Paulo in Brazil and before I received the Hall of Fame in Tokyo in 2018.

Ron Hunninghake, MD [00:05:55]:
And I was there and that was.

Ilyes Baghli, MD [00:05:57]:
Wonderful in the different place you were there in Toronto, in Tokyo and in Sao Paulo, in Brazil.

Ron Hunninghake, MD [00:06:05]:
Let me just say to our audience, maybe the term orthomolecular is a little bit foreign to some people. It’s been around for a long time. Dr. Abram Hoffer, who you mentioned earlier, was a very good friend of Dr. Reardon and both of them were leaders in this effort to alert people that certain nutrient doses was not sufficient to empower the cellular physiology in that higher doses, orthomolecular doses of certain nutrients like niacin, which worked very well for schizophrenia patients. And then Dr. Reardon went in very heavy on high doses of vitamin C, which he found was effective against cancer if it was reached to a particular level. And so what’s been so interesting about your work is that your whole country, you have had a lot of support from your country and your part of the world for the orthomolecular model here in the in the west. It’s been slowly making headway, but it’s been an uphill battle. What do you think is the difference? Why is it so well accepted in Algiers?

Ilyes Baghli, MD [00:07:19]:
You know, Algeria Independent in five July 62, 1962. We have nearly the same Independence Day with USA. And you have to know that Algeria was really independent the first July 62. And by respect to USA, we make the choice of the independent days the day next. So it’s the 5th of July and health in Algeria is really independent from all international organization. We are partner, but we have no authority under our health national program. And in Algeria the citizens is responsible in the choice for his health and for the treatment. So all new sharing in medicine is really welcome. I will give you an example at the COVID time. I share with all the doctors in my country, with more than 50,000 doctors, I share about orthomolecular protocols. So we share about vitamin C, about vitamin D, about zinc, about magnesium complexity. So it’s really open mind. And we know the difference between preventive antioxidant global doses and between the proxy that therapeutic personalized doses. So we don’t use the semantic of mega doses, but the therapeutic personalized doses. And you have to know that in Algeria I was received in different university like Temouchent, like Clemson, like Mascara and also different Faculty of Medicine, like in Algiers and Clemson and others. And also I do sharing about my integrative therapeutic approach and the hybrid orthomolecular protocol with the National Institute of Global Strategic Studies who depend of the Algerian presidents. So it’s up then the government and come the different delegates of different member of the government. And I share in 4-7-2023 our vision. And now from the 2nd of July to the 4th of July it was the integrative therapeutic approach and orthomolecular medicine was introduced to the university. So I will do the first training to the professor of hospital, to the doctor, to the pharmacist, to the dentist, the psychologists, biologists, chemist and also students. In the University of Timushant it’s nearly between Oran and between Clemson, my hometown. So it’s really, I think a first step, really interesting for all humanity that in our country the rector of the university and the Ministry of High Training so the Ministry of all university introduced orthomolecular medicine and also the Integrative therapeutic approach to all members of health, like not only doctors, but also to pharmacists, also to psychologists. So we make a bridge between all the actors for healthy being to the citizens. And of course the first who will get the benefit is the citizens who is ill. Because we are not looking only to treat like the results of the disease, but to ask why this is ill. So we have to treat causal. So if there is poison, if there is toxicity, if there is acid ph, is there is low bacteria example, if there is low consume low amino acid, low oligo elements or low vitamins. So now it’s really introduced in the new program and I was very honored and very proud of my country that he opened. And it was one of the first nation in the world to promote orthomolecular medicine. And you know, when something happened in America first happen in Algeria next. And also when it happened in Algeria first, it can happen in America next. So we are really connected. And of course, because our hybrid orthomolecular medicine protocol now is introduced in different clinic also in Riordan Clinic in America. Now they are asking in Algeria to do like in usa. So you, you know, each one get the benefit from the other one because when it was. It can be happen in some place, the other place can receive the same benefit.

Ron Hunninghake, MD [00:14:01]:
Yeah. So it’s fascinating how you have created a spirit of openness in your country that I think is somewhat happening here in the United States in the sense that I think a lot of people are frustrated with the fact that our national health has declined and this. It’s happening all over the world, but it’s. It’s especially happening in countries where medicine is thought to be really powerful. But in the realm of let’s. What we’re talking about is our. We’re having you speak at the cancer symposium that we’ll be having in November. Cancer Care Reimagined. So your protocol, the hybrid protocol targeting the mitochondrial stem cell connection in cancer treatment. A hybrid orthomolecular protocol. That’s the title of your paper. It’s a fascinating, wonderful paper. Can we break this down into pieces so that our audience can understand? So why is it important that we go after the stem cell? What is it about the stem cell and how does it. What is the link to the mitochondria in the whole area of cancer care?

Ilyes Baghli, MD [00:15:16]:
Yes, of course, because, you know, from stem cell to normal cell or to the cancer cell, this is the part of going back. So if we can give to the mitochondria all the energy that she need to make the cells normal, we can have the good result. But if there is like the difficult for phosphoryl oxidation or like a low level vibration energy for organ, we can have memory for cancer inside the stem cell. And for that we can have an original cancer in another organ from the memory of the first organ. And for that we have to find how to go to reset zero in the memory of stem cell to make the next cell normal and not cancer cells. And in this study we find also that cancer cell and parasite works in the same way. And for that antiparasitic therapy like ivermectin or mebendazole or fembendazole or flubendazole are also anticancer agent. And we have a publication this week, we do it on Karger Publishers, Switzerland. And we proved that fenbendazole is not only an antiparasitic agent, but it’s also an anticancer agent. And all anti parasitee agent therapy is also anticancer therapy. But not only this. We prove also that like vitamin D is the first in first position for treatment of cancer. Because in every nuclei the cell there is a receptor of vitamin D. And also, and of course we need a good level of vitamin D between 80 nanogram and 100 nanogram by milliliter. That it means between 200 and 250 millimoles by liter. You have to know that vitamin D need of course magnesium need complex B. But this is in reference, because in the publication we share only about vitamin D, Vitamin C of course, in proxidant doses, in the doses who keep ascorbic acid in urina. And also you have to, you know, and we share about it in 2016, that vitamin C need Coenzyme NADH, nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide to make it the cofactor between vitamin C and NADH. And it makes each other 11 times more beneficial. And also we have to know that vitamin E is a cofactor of vitamin C and Coenzyme Q10 is a cofactor of vitamin E. Sorry. And the zinc. And we share also zinc that 1 milligram by kilo a day is really important because it’s also a cofactor of vitamin C of magnesium. And finally, there is no miracle vitamin. There is a global necessity to give different vitamin oligo element, amino acid and also Coenzyme to make the body healthier. And of course, in this hybrid orthomolecular protocol, we share also about fasting, about physical activity, about cytogenic diet, but also anti inflammatory diet and also of course about hyperbaric therapy and other therapies. So it’s a really global therapy and we are really happy that Riordan Clinic introduced this hybrid orthomolecular protocol for the therapy for patients in present and in the future.

Ron Hunninghake, MD [00:20:45]:
Yeah. So thank you very much. You know, Dr. Reardon, basically when he would give a lecture, he would ask people what’s the most important nutrient? And it’s a trick question. It’s the ones that you’re most low in. If you don’t have enough of a key nutrient, the rest of the team suffers. So what I hear you saying is in the protocol, you want to make sure that the cancer patient has enough of these very basic nutrients to work together with the other parts of the program. So your program is not just one treatment, it’s a combination of treatments to help return the cell back to more normal functioning and to restore the mitochondrial functioning. Because in cancer cells, the mitochondria are not working properly even though there is adequate oxygen. Normally, if there’s adequate oxygen, the mitochondrial will do their job. But in a cancer cell, they have regressed back and they’re using the glycolytic pathway which does not require oxygen in order to make all these new cells that are so cancerous.

Ilyes Baghli, MD [00:21:51]:
Yes, of course. Example, we need first of all the personalized therapeutic doses. Because if we give prevental doses, we cannot get the therapeutic results. So for that we need a really therapeutic personalized doses. And also you have to know that in cancer cell there is two ATP in mitochondria and in normal cell there is 36 ATP. Right. And when we add like vitamin C and you know that vitamin C with NADH gives three ATP. And if we mix the vitamin C with an adage and vitamin C make NADH 11 times more with 11 more activities. So we go back from 3 to 33 ATP and with the 2 initial ATP we have 35 ATEP. So and because it’s not 36, there is an Autolyse. So auto destruction of cancer cell. And probably if we find how to add one ATP, we can make a normal cell from cancer cell. And it’s that we share in our study in 2016 that we share in David Publisher about when we mix NADH and vitamin C we use the lymphocyt cell study with the pesticide all are distributed. But when we give only NADH or only vitamin C we have a part of cells alive that when we mix them all still Alive, but it’s not enough. We need vitamin D to doses, therapeutic doses and zinc. And also the new protocol. In the new protocol we introduce the antiparasitic therapy as anticancer therapy. And maybe we create the oncoparasytology therapy by this hybrid orthomolecular medicine. Because parasitee and cancer cell have the same way to get energy like glucose, glutamine and also the same way how to make them growing to be like alive. And this is what happened in cancer also. And what is also important that we find that there is not in every cases metastasis, but there is sometimes original concern in second organ from the memory, from the energetic low vibration of the first organ. The second organ, when he is in low energy vibration, he can take the memory of the first organ. So we can have a cancer cell from stem cell from a second organ from the memory of first organ. And in these cases, chemotherapy is not benefit, radiotherapy is not benefit. Because there is. We have to go to a reset zero memory in stem cell to stop cancer cell growing. So for that this hybrid orthomolecular medicine make a new vision, a new opportunity and a new way in the treatment, in the cancer for the cancer in the present and in the future.

Ron Hunninghake, MD [00:26:23]:
So you are actually using this, this therapy to reset the mitochondria in the cancer cells. And I’m curious is in terms of using the antiparasitic medicines, do you think the. And you know, it could be parasitees? You know, there’s. I’ve also interviewed Mark Lintern. There could be fungal infections, there could be viral infections. Do you think it’s the weakness of the cell that it cannot get rid of the infection. And that is somehow altering the metabolism of the mitochondria. And that by putting the antiparasitic medicines in and reducing the infectious load on the cell and then at the same time putting in the vitamin C and the nutrients to kind of restart the metabolic engine of the cell. Is that one way of envisioning what you see is happening?

Ilyes Baghli, MD [00:27:21]:
Yes, of course it is. We have to study the relation between, you know, when there is the parasite, there is low immunity. When there is cancer, there is more parasite. If we give chemotherapy, there is more parasite. Yeah, so there is a problem in the body with parasite. But outside these studies we have to know that the structural way for palazzo and structural way for cancer cell are the same. How to use energy. And this is amazing. How to keep glutamine, how to keep glucose. So for that there is systematic all antiparasitic are anticancer. Without sharing about what is the relation between parasite and cancer. It’s another tama. But structurally we proved and they accepted this paper in May 26, 2025. It was published in Karger Publishers in Switzerland. There is just a last correction and it will publish it these days in a few days. And the title is Fembandazole Anticancer Agent. So it’s a new step in the history of the medicine that we introduced from a hybrid orthomolecular protocol. A new therapy not only in orthomolecular medicine with vitamin C, vitamin D, zinc and other things that we share in reference. Like an adage, like magnesium, like complex B, like niacin, like other. Like selenium, like omega 3, like other oligo elements and amino acid. But also we proved that antiparasitic are anticancer. And this is a really amazing step in the treatment. And we make two specialities in one about onco parasiteology therapy. It will be something that it will be created biological happening. And also we have to don’t forget that example in inflammatory there is, you know OGM all what is genetically modified with ADEM tetraploid make in the body inflammatory. We have to keep out flour, we have to keep out sugar. And also we have to make ketogenic diet to give more how say like cholesterol is. Cholesterol is the as a powerful benefit for the body because hormone come from cholesterol, brain activity from cholesterol. And also healthy body need cholesterol. So for that we have to change the reality sharing before because people have to know that they need to eat from different products. Like eggs, like meat, like fish, like chicken or other. But also all the all what comes from milk, like natural cheese or like Camembert Roquefort something to make growing the microbiome. And also to make high level of good bacteria in intestinal. And also how to do the detoxification by fasting, by physical activity. And also by using like niacin, like N AC N acetylcysteine. Also vitamin C and magnesium are really good for detoxification. So we have to learn how to make it globally. Because when it’s not global, we cannot have all the reasons.

Ron Hunninghake, MD [00:32:33]:
Yeah. So really, in some ways you’re bringing together two worlds. There is the world of nutrition and how important it is in orthomolecular nutrition. But in this case the world of medicine in terms of the anti parasiteic medicines seem to be an important part to help overcome the weakness of the cell that has caused the parasitee to take over and create the cancer in this understanding that you’ve put forth. So I was going to ask, how do you know, have you figured out the dosing of parasitee medicines? Because are parasitees medicines safe at the doses that you’re using?

Ilyes Baghli, MD [00:33:18]:
We have to go to buy different step in level of doses. We can start at half milligram by kilogram a day for ivermectin and next going to one milligram by kilogram a day. And then we go to one milligram and half or two milligrams by kilogram a day. It depends of the level of contact. But we have to go by step like three weeks for each level doses and to get the result of hepatic biology like phosphatase, alkaline gammageta and transaminase to look how hepatic activity go ahead. And also we have mebendazole that we can start 200 milligrams a day and next three weeks we can go to 400 milligrams. And also we have fembendazole we can use around like, we can start like 222 milligrams and then next three weeks we can go to 444 milligrams and next we can go to 888 milligrams. So it depends of the weight. Of the weight, of course. And of the step of cancer. Is it in like first step or grad? First grad, second grad, third grad or fourth grad. But what is new? That also if it’s in the fourth grad, we can have a really good result. And for that it’s a really good tape. In the history of methane and it’s come like the therapy, antiparasite, parasiteic therapy, come to orthomolecular medicine like refugees putting the two together. And the connection was happened naturally.

Ron Hunninghake, MD [00:35:33]:
Very good. So you have to do a titration method to get the right dose for each individual. And that’s really true with nutrients too. We’re basically titrating nutrients.

Ilyes Baghli, MD [00:35:44]:
Of course, I think all, all therapy must be in a personalized dose to be more beneficial and to use only what we need and not more. And of course not low, because when it’s good, it really benefits.

Ron Hunninghake, MD [00:36:07]:
Dr. Ilyes Baghli, we could go on for another several hours, but I want to thank you for taking the time out of your weekend holiday and spending it with us. And I know there will be people that will hear this and be very enthralled because the cancer issue is growing around the world. And so we need new ideas. We need safe ways to help people overcome this terrible disease and we’re very.

Ilyes Baghli, MD [00:36:35]:
Have a lot of good results in North America, in South America, like usa, like Argentina. I introduced training in Universidad de Nebrija in Spain about metabolic cancerology. I will do a great conference in Tokyo in Japan in the 15th of September and also I do a conference about this hybrid or co molecular protocol in Boracay in Philippines in October 28 in 2024. And of course we are really honored to be with you in Riordan Clinic in November between 7th to 8th November and this year and it will be a really amazing meeting between us because we are like a great family. We are for good health of course. Thank you.

Ron Hunninghake, MD [00:37:31]:
Thank you so much for your leadership and your enthusiasm. Nothing good happens without enthusiasm and you’ve got it, so keep it going. Thank you so much. Thanks for being on our program.

Riordan Clinic [00:37:43]:
Thank you for listening to the Real Health Podcast. This episode was brought to you by Empower Pharmacy, the most advanced compounding pharmacy and 503B outsourcing facility in the nation. Licensed in all 50 states, Empower is committed to improving access to safe, affordable and personalized medications for patients, providers and caregivers. Learn more at empowerpharmacy.com if you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and leave us a review. You can also find all of the episode and show notes over realhealthpodcast.org also be sure to visit riordanclinic.org where you will find hundreds of videos and articles to help you create your own version of Real Health.