In this episode of The Real Health Podcast, Dr. Ron Hunninghake and Dr. Kirsten West sit down with Dr. Mark Hancock to explore one of integrative oncology’s most intriguing therapies: Mistletoe. Discover how this plant-based treatment—used in Europe for over 100 years—is gaining traction in the U.S. Dr. Hancock shares the science, real patient outcomes, and how mistletoe is safely used alongside conventional therapies. If you’re seeking holistic options in cancer treatment, this episode is a must-watch!
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Links
Learn more about our guest, Dr. Mark Hancock: https://humanizingmedicine.com/
Learn more about the hosts:
Dr. Ron Hunninghake, MD: https://riordanclinic.org/staff/ron-hunninghake-md/
Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO: https://riordanclinic.org/staff/kirsten-west-nd-lac-fabno/
Learn more about Riordan Clinic: https://riordanclinic.org/
Interested in becoming a Patient: https://riordanclinic.org/request-an-appointment/
Disclaimer: The information contained on the Real Health Podcast and the resources mentioned are for educational purposes only. They’re not intended as and shall not be understood or construed as medical or health advice. The information contained on this podcast is not a substitute for medical or health advice from a professional who is aware of the facts and circumstances of your individual situation. Information provided by hosts and guests on the Real Health Podcast or the use of any products or services mentioned does not create a practitioner-patient relationship between you and any persons affiliated with this podcast.
Read the Transcript
00:00:02:21 – 00:00:16:20
Narrator
This is the Real Health podcast brought to you by Riordan Clinic. Our mission is to bring you the latest information and top experts in functional and integrative medicine to help you make informed decisions on your path to real health.
00:00:16:22 – 00:01:00:15
Dr. Ron Hunninghake, MD
Welcome everyone. I’m Doctor Ron Hunninghake and you’re visiting us again on another episode of the Real Health podcast. And I’m having with me today, doctor Kirsten West, one of our wonderful naturopathic oncologists. And our guest today is doctor Mark Hancock. He’s a medical doctor that specializes in the use of mistletoe in the care of cancer patients. And there’s a lot more I could say about you, Mark, but I really want to just get into what you’re doing and have a conversation about how patients can understand the importance of not just the discovery, because mistletoe has been around quite a while, but the new applications of mistletoe in the care in the area of oncology.
00:01:00:17 – 00:01:11:14
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
Thank you so much, Ron. I’m super honored to be on this podcast and just part of your your ultra awesome team. Yeah. Thank you.
00:01:11:16 – 00:01:16:18
Dr. Ron Hunninghake, MD
Could I just ask you how you got into mistletoe therapy?
00:01:16:20 – 00:01:50:18
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
It I feel like sometimes God blesses your biography and and it was like, really a special thing. I as a I knew a little bit about mistletoe just peripherally, as a, as a pre-med student. And I did my medical school training in a Caribbean medical school that had its affiliates in the UK. One of the. So my wife I, that I dragged her to the Caribbean and, she was like, I want to go to the UK.
00:01:50:18 – 00:02:18:02
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
So we went there. I let her decide. We went. We happened to settle down. Right. A 15 minute drive from the foremost mistletoe researcher in the world at the time, Doctor Maurice Orange. He, And he took me under his wing. So I was like, with him working at Parc Atwood, which was, this, retreat center inpatient clinic.
00:02:18:04 – 00:02:43:18
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
And he was doing some really cool things with mistletoe that, are were phenomenal at the time. They were new because, mistletoe had been used being used for probably 80 years before that, but he was using it in high doses. He was injecting tumors. And he was, he was a researcher who’s really careful documenting, his responses with it.
00:02:43:20 – 00:03:03:21
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
I didn’t dream that I would do what I’m doing now, though. I thought, okay, well, I’ll probably do some mistletoe for people, but it was really meeting the demand once I established myself as a doctor and, if that part was all patient driven,
00:03:03:23 – 00:03:08:09
Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
It takes that one person, doesn’t it, to come into your life.
00:03:08:11 – 00:03:09:05
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
Yes.
00:03:09:07 – 00:03:20:02
Dr. Ron Hunninghake, MD
So, Doctor West, you know, maybe just for the for the purpose of explaining to our general audience what is mistletoe and how do you use it with cancer patients here?
00:03:20:04 – 00:03:45:03
Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Well, we use mistletoe to stimulate the immune system. Most importantly, promote more of a heat therapy. I think that that’s something that we really need to remember. We get so focused on what it does with the immune system and what it does with natural killer cells or work as a, you know, a natural chemotherapeutic in some ways. But the heat aspect is so big, and that is a big tenet of, anthroposophical medicine, isn’t it, Mark?
00:03:45:09 – 00:04:15:12
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
That’s that’s absolutely right. Now we have tools that can measure in real time what core body temperature does. Before we’ve had those, we’ve gathered some data on people that were using mistletoe. Both before and after. And it’s this was just subcu. And interestingly, in oncology, there’s a tendency to have a lower body temperature than normal. But there’s also a tendency to not have a daily fluctuation.
00:04:15:12 – 00:04:43:05
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
So it looks like a systole on an EKG. It’s just a flat line where in the morning it’s the same as the evening. And really core body temperature should fluctuate. And to me the most exciting thing is it’s a before after. So when people started in their injections with multiple grafts so people’s it’s almost like they get jumpstarted their, their rhythm of warmth started again.
00:04:43:11 – 00:04:52:07
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
And that correlated very well with how their immune system worked. But also like internally how they how well they felt.
00:04:52:09 – 00:05:16:05
Dr. Ron Hunninghake, MD
Well, it makes me think, you know, if, if, if we get sick, anyone get sick with any kind of infection. The body normally warms up as a way of activating and a more effective immune response. And so would that be? In essence, what mistletoe Therapy is doing is helping, raise the temperature of the body and, in effect, increase its immune response.
00:05:16:07 – 00:05:20:01
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
Yes, yes, I think that’s absolutely right.
00:05:20:03 – 00:05:43:13
Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
I remember one of my first, days, actually, I think it was the first day of natural think medical school. They talked about the fact they talked about the vital force, and they talked about how infants and toddlers will when they get sick, they get this robust fever. And it’s actually a beautiful thing. And as we get older, you know, we could be like 85 and not even know we have a urinary tract infection because we’re not mounting that same response.
00:05:43:13 – 00:05:51:07
Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
And so I think that mistletoe comes in as our it’s a beautiful tool that we have to kind of, you know, keep our bodies vital.
00:05:51:09 – 00:06:17:17
Dr. Ron Hunninghake, MD
It’s interesting that from, kind of like a standard medical approach, you know, you get a fever. Oh, take Tylenol, take something to bring the fever down. But yet, really, the fever is the body’s attempt to enhance the immune response to whatever the afflicting agent is. So how does this play into cancer? How how, what what are the what what has been the history of mistletoe in the realm of cancer care?
00:06:17:19 – 00:06:50:17
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
Well, it goes back now over 100 years, which I think is it’s amazing. And yeah, the the history really started out, mostly it was being used subcutaneously for decades, and there were enthusiastic doctors. Mostly it was in Switzerland, in Germany, in Europe, where eventually those docs got together and they formed actual modern integrative hospitals, which we got to tour last year.
00:06:50:19 – 00:07:17:06
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
And it that was amazing to do that with the group of 25, docs and natural parts and and see just how far they’ve taken it because now, now those options are under insurance in many countries. So in it depends on where you poll. But among people who have a cancer diagnosis, about 75% of them are using mistletoe.
00:07:17:08 – 00:07:45:02
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
In, in these countries. And it’s helped because, well, it is covered by either the National health insurance in Switzerland or, different insurance, companies that are in Germany, they have different ones. They’re it’s a little more like our system. So it’s it’s more firmly established and it’s even I wouldn’t say everyone is using it or knows about it, but I would say most, most doctors know about it.
00:07:45:04 – 00:08:10:16
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
Of many patients that have a mom or dad that that are European, and they were treated by like the head of oncology in a very conventional center. And I found it really just heartening to hear that the this head of oncology said, do all these things. But down around the corner there’s, there’s a doctor that does mistletoe go start that that’s going to help you too.
00:08:10:18 – 00:08:28:16
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
So we should be working hand in hand with others. And I know that’s what you all do. Kirsten, run. And and that’s what I tried to do. And I think that’s more and more to the benefit of our patients. So hopefully we’re going to bring that more mainstream.
00:08:28:18 – 00:08:43:22
Dr. Ron Hunninghake, MD
Well, usually things will go mainstream in the United States if there’s good scientific research to back it up. And so I was wondering if you could kind of fill us in where is research in the United States at this time on mistletoe?
00:08:43:24 – 00:09:16:03
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
Yeah. Thank you for asking. It’s great. Great question. So a unique study. So this is, unique in one way, because it was funded, by partly by nonprofit and done through Johns Hopkins, nonprofit being believe big. And they did a phase one. It was first phase one of mistletoe on U.S. soil. And thank goodness they canceled some really, you know, some some of the members, wrote her book.
00:09:16:03 – 00:09:39:20
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
Doctor Nisha Winters chipped in and said, hey, if you’re going to study this, don’t just study subcutaneous mistletoe. Do do the IV. So she was actually pivotal there. That study has now been completed. It’s been published in a pretty good journal. Had favorable outcomes. So it was actually unique, not because it was a first phase one trial.
00:09:39:20 – 00:10:04:05
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
It was the first trial on mistletoe to be done in the United States. We’ve had almost 200 trials over overseas. But they hadn’t done, heavily pretreated population. So all of the patients had stage four cancer, all of them had had multiple lines of chemotherapy, and they wanted to see phase one trials for mainly is it safe?
00:10:04:07 – 00:10:27:05
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
So they had the typical dosing and they showed it. Yes, it is safe. And then they picked out from there. Did it help. No they weren’t that wasn’t the main. That’s more of the main gist of a phase two. But they did show. Yeah. This this not only was safe, but it did have a tendency to stabilize cancer in some of these patients to help quality of life.
00:10:27:08 – 00:10:56:23
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
It it did have effects. That’s that’s exciting to me. There’s another there is a phase two, that many people hadn’t heard of, that it’s actually recruiting. And it’s at MD Anderson. And it’s a, it’s also a mistletoe trial, and it’s still in process now. It’s actually a replicated mistletoe trial there. There was an under enrolled underpowered mistletoe trial.
00:10:57:00 – 00:11:26:17
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
They used Escada, which is a fermented one of four types of mistletoe, and they gave it this is also pretty unique. They gave it as a as a prophylactic replacement. So it was typically, in patients who have osteo sarcoma, they’re usually teens or 20s. That’s and it has a predisposition to go into the lungs.
00:11:26:19 – 00:11:54:24
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
So these are patients, this patient population had had surgery removing deep bulking the lungs. They they knew the researchers knew these these were very high risk of recurrence. And one arm got a top side. That’s a chemotherapy that was more of a maintenance, prophylactic dose to prevent recurrence. The other arm only got mistletoe. And they watched them.
00:11:54:24 – 00:12:27:22
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
So this is in the original trial. The average survival of the top as I group, unfortunately, was around three months. Not not good. Excitingly, the Escada arm and again, it was underpowered but dramatic results in this small trial. The, 11 years later they did an update. There were still patients alive without cancer in that arm. I mean, it’s it’s amazing.
00:12:27:24 – 00:12:45:10
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
So to me, I don’t, you know, I sometimes have disagreements with conventional ecology, but I’m very happy MD Anderson picked that specific trial to replicate. Because they’re they’re actually doing it. Exactly. But powering it up.
00:12:45:12 – 00:12:54:06
Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
That’s neat Mark. It’s neat also that they use the scanner this time, the fermented form, you know, the higher the the higher risk of toxins. So you wonder.
00:12:54:07 – 00:12:54:19
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
Yes.
00:12:55:00 – 00:12:56:03
Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Yeah.
00:12:56:05 – 00:13:16:08
Dr. Ron Hunninghake, MD
So I’m sure there’s a number of viewers that are they’ve heard of this. We’ve talked about it now. We’ve talked about the research. Some of the history of it may be cursed. Could you kind of walk, our listeners through what it would be like if they had cancer and they wanted to do mistletoe? What? What is the nuts and bolts of how it’s done?
00:13:16:10 – 00:13:34:18
Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Well, we typically start with subcutaneous injections, although it can be used in lots of different modalities. I know Mark at Mark’s, practice. He does my intro to moral, intravenous, subcutaneous. So. But we do intraperitoneal occasionally.
00:13:34:20 – 00:13:44:19
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
We also which is in the abdominal space not not very often, but, and we also do bladder installation. So we’ll put mistletoe into the bladder.
00:13:44:22 – 00:13:59:09
Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
I want to get back to that. I want to get back to that because I want you to tell us about, a couple of patients, but, yeah. So for us, when we started, I and Mark chime in if this is any different from what you do, but we always start with a low. We typically start with subcutaneous.
00:13:59:09 – 00:14:13:11
Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
We start with a lower dose and gradually increase. And we’re looking for that reaction which is a little bit of redness or itchiness or pain at the side of the injection. That redness is usually the, the golden, the golden sign that we’ve gotten to.
00:14:13:11 – 00:14:14:04
Dr. Ron Hunninghake, MD
Stimulating an.
00:14:14:04 – 00:14:33:16
Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Immune we’re stimulating immune response. We’re getting the the immune cells where they need to go. So once we hit that, once we hit that reaction, we typically stay there. And over time the patient typically starts to need a higher dose is the reaction dies down. And there’s various forms of mistletoe that you can use as mark was talking about is good or versus you know there’s vaccine.
00:14:33:18 – 00:14:44:03
Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
There’s like sore. So so yeah, that’s how we use it. That’s how we typically start it. And then intravenous is similar in the fact that you gradually escalate the dose.
00:14:44:05 – 00:14:54:14
Dr. Ron Hunninghake, MD
So you’re creating a hypothermia basically. And hypothermia is well known to be helpful in cancer patients. Yeah that’s great.
00:14:54:15 – 00:15:06:18
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
And we do very similar to use. And that’s exactly, exactly right. Sometimes we use a series which is sort of cycling up and then we’ll restart it a little bit lower.
00:15:06:20 – 00:15:21:07
Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Mark, how do you feel about that when you get people on series, do you, do you like to go up and then have them return, like continue on series one where they’re gradually going up and coming down and gradually going up and coming down or how do you like to do that?
00:15:21:07 – 00:16:01:06
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
Great question. It does depend on the clinical situation. So if there’s somebody that’s reasonably robust and they don’t mind having using subcutaneous a little more aggressively, then with, with one of the brands called helix or series three is sort of an outlier series that it should have been called the Fast Start series because it doesn’t go one, two, three, four, it goes one, two, four, or it goes three, four, and so in those people I’m like, you’re going to get some bigger reactions, some bigger than two inch, which is sort of our upper limit of yeah, that’s okay, it’s goal.
00:16:01:08 – 00:16:26:07
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
But we accept it. So we, you know, of course we have a longer conversation. And in return, we, ideally get a more robust anti-cancer response, but, in general. Yes. Yeah. In general. Yes. Yeah. Actually, yesterday I just got a, update from a patient who had a big giant sarcoma in their lung, about it the size of a basketball.
00:16:26:12 – 00:16:48:06
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
You know, it was unbelievable. And that has since we started her on series three. She couldn’t make it back and forth. The clinic was two states away. And I got an update that that has stabilized. It shrunk considerably. And she feels absolutely terrific. I mean, she could. So it was like, this is this is real stuff.
00:16:48:06 – 00:16:53:08
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
It’s disheartening to, hear real stories from from patients.
00:16:53:10 – 00:16:54:19
Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
That’s.
00:16:54:21 – 00:17:19:11
Dr. Ron Hunninghake, MD
Well, and I think, you know, everyone’s hearing about how immunotherapy in general, from the conventional perspective, is turning out to be a very powerful therapy for a lot of people. Again, are we in the same realm of immunotherapy? How is this similar? How is it different? And can patients use, this type of therapy in conjunction with conventional therapy?
00:17:19:13 – 00:17:47:23
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
Whew. Two questions. So glad you asked that, because it’s, it comes up all the time on the on the one hand, I think we’re really fortunate, that 20 years ago, at least for my knowledge, I don’t think in the conventional realm there was any excitement, openness to the immune system, the body’s own forces being able to actually heal cancer.
00:17:48:00 – 00:18:18:20
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
But with the advent of immunotherapy, we’re now seeing commercials that I don’t watch TV, but I’ve seen some of these where it’s like, oh, you can unleash your own forces to attack. And it’s like, that’s that’s getting along the lines of what we’re doing. I’m like, okay, so I like that actually. Now the the degree of potential side effects, etc., with, with immunotherapy, that’s something else to be discussed.
00:18:18:20 – 00:18:37:20
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
Right? On the one hand, you’re taking the brakes off. That’s the probably the easiest way to describe that. You’re taking the brakes off the, the T cells and natural killer cells. So when they find cancer cells, they just keep killing instead of they they kill a little bit. They’re there like I’m done. But you’re like, no, you got to finish the job.
00:18:37:22 – 00:19:03:10
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
And they can have, I, I’ve seen cases where they can have a life saving, life changing effect. They can also have, induce autoimmunity. Mistletoe can be used or. How is it working? Mistletoe is not taking the brakes off of them. It’s up regulating. It’s stimulating them. So you’re working on the same subtype of cell that is really important.
00:19:03:12 – 00:19:37:09
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
And, yes. Now there have been studies in the last few years. There are studies both safety and also now survival studies that show boosted survival in patients that are using drugs like Keytruda or octavo, with mistletoe at sometimes a strong, high lectin mistletoe like vaccini. So it’s, it’s useful that we have European colleagues that are doing those types of, of studies and answering those questions.
00:19:37:11 – 00:20:00:24
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
But yeah, it is working on the same type of cell, and I tend to try to adjust. I go forward cautiously. Actually, just this morning I had a patient that’s, tech centric, which is, you know, another Pd-l1 inhibitor which is taking the brakes off the immune system. And she wants start mistletoe, too, which I think is a great idea.
00:20:00:24 – 00:20:10:18
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
We’re going to start with Subcu said, don’t start IV yet, but we can ease into that after a few weeks or a month.
00:20:10:20 – 00:20:37:12
Dr. Ron Hunninghake, MD
I remember that one of the very first cancer therapies in the United States that was shown to be effective was Coley’s toxins. Right. And that’s basically an immune stimulant. It works in a different mechanism, but you’re doing the same thing. You’re basically hermetically stimulator. You’re giving a challenge to the immune system. And as it up regulates to meet the challenge, it helps the body control the growth of the tumor.
00:20:37:12 – 00:20:56:14
Dr. Ron Hunninghake, MD
Because the tumor, there’s new evidence that it may be an infection, too. There’s always been this concern, you know, is it is there a fungal infection or a parasitic infection? And are we just basically helping the body get rid of maybe germs in addition to whatever else is causing the cancer?
00:20:56:16 – 00:21:32:14
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
Yeah, I think that’s an important thing because Coley’s Toxins is working on the same principles of, of, the lectins and, and inducing an immune response. It’s a member of what we call a PMP pathogen associated molecular pattern. And there’s some interesting literature that my mentor was part of. That if you combine PAMPS if you, if you, for instance, ISCADOR because it’s fermented and then sterilize filtrate it, it has ended.
00:21:32:15 – 00:21:52:21
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
It has these endotoxins from bacteria, cell parts. It’s not the bacteria themselves. It also has lectins, which is another PMP. If you put them together that can enhanced, this restrained immune response, and, and lead to much better results.
00:21:52:23 – 00:22:13:02
Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
I think one of the beautiful things about mistletoe is we’re talking about this is that we can really individualize it to the patient and their constitution. So unlike traditional medicines where we’re just like, all right, well, this is what we’re going to use for this. We can we have a we have a choice of the different type of mistletoe that we would use based on the based on the individual and where they’re at.
00:22:13:05 – 00:22:44:22
Dr. Ron Hunninghake, MD
It’s kind of like a sliding scale, you know, in terms of your you’re you’re starting low and just gently bringing the patient’s immune system up. You’re not slamming it. You’re doing it in a way that their immune system can gradually gain strength. But because some cancer patients are really very, very sick and you don’t want to come in there with a nuclear bomb and really, disrupt their, their overall system so they can go into this in a slow, steady way and find out what their particular levels are going to be.
00:22:44:22 – 00:22:55:13
Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
That it seems to harmonize. And I think one of the things I’ve seen across the board for 98% of my patients is they feel better when they’re on mistletoe, they just feel better.
00:22:55:15 – 00:23:22:00
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
So it’s something I feel like we can lean on is that there’s a quality of life boost. And Ron, you’re right, there is. We can shift the dose. But there’s also an aspect that I think Kristen was referring to, which is mistletoe. So it goes back to 100 years. Mistletoe grow. It’s a it’s a semi parasitic plant, and it grows on trees and needs a mother trees in order to, to survive.
00:23:22:02 – 00:23:55:23
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
And when they harvested in Europe, they, they do at least two harvests. Usually it’s, winter and summer, but they, they collect it just off certain trees. So all of the ash tree that goes into one compilation and one medicine, all of the fir tree goes into another and there can be vastly different amounts of compounds. But I would also say that, the, the really the soul energy of the tree that, that, that can really speak to people to and you’re getting some of that.
00:23:55:23 – 00:24:18:18
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
You’re, you can work in a way with, with the energy from the tree and bolster someone. So for instance, the birch tree is full of light. And if someone has depression, I might think of either the pine or the birch. Because of that aspect. Bringing that in for a little while. So there’s an artistic element with the mistletoe.
00:24:18:19 – 00:24:43:23
Dr. Ron Hunninghake, MD
Isn’t that what they’re anthroposophic really is, is kind of learning from nature, how it modulates its life in a way to be healthier. And we’re, in a sense, mimicking some of those patterns, using plants and natural substances to help the body warm up. You know, I’m I’m actually always trying to help warm up my patients with low doses of thyroid and things like that.
00:24:44:00 – 00:24:51:09
Dr. Ron Hunninghake, MD
But this is a plant based way to upregulate the thermal system of the body. Basically.
00:24:51:11 – 00:24:53:07
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
00:24:53:07 – 00:25:02:09
Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
There’s a beautiful the book that you all have a beautiful descriptions about the different trees and how they work. It’s the energetics. It’s great.
00:25:02:11 – 00:25:21:08
Dr. Ron Hunninghake, MD
Gives a whole different dimension to chemotherapy oncology because normally we think of oncology as cut, burn and poison, so to speak. But this is not poisoning. This is using plant substance to modulate the immune system in a favorable direction in a real simple way.
00:25:21:08 – 00:25:53:10
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
Yes. Yeah. It’s not just solely antitumor. So the lectins and viscous toxins that are there’s more than just that and mistletoe. But those are the two main compound that we found. Those do have in in a cancer anti-tumor effect. And but they also have a bolstering effect in the human constitution. So it’s not just tumor centric. It’s really how do we raise all the ships, you know, how do we boost vitality and help the vet?
00:25:53:10 – 00:26:03:11
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
Jeff, and the other factors and help autonomy, too? And I think that really leads to real healing, person centric.
00:26:03:13 – 00:26:05:10
Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Human, human centric medicine.
00:26:05:10 – 00:26:19:17
Dr. Ron Hunninghake, MD
Yeah. So, aside from the process of finding the right dose, are there any significant side effects of of this type of therapy that needs to be, watched for?
00:26:19:19 – 00:26:49:03
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
I’m glad you asked that. I think that with the subcutaneous, if you’re dosing in a in the general, I would say the conventional or the usual way, very few side effects. I mean, you’re I would consider that the skin reaction, which is about an inch to two inch, it can be itchy, it can be a little bit painful locally, but I but in the doses we use, I’ve not seen any allergic response.
00:26:49:05 – 00:27:30:12
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
And even with I’ve true allergies extremely rare. But with the subcu you can get a little boost in body temperature, rarely, usually 1% of the time or less of fever with an actual fever. When we do IV, we’re doing 100 times more, or greater of the compounds. And, and, it about 5% of the time, people get a pseudo reaction, like a pseudo allergic reaction where they get some flushing and itching, and I, I prioritize using natural things like, corset in or, the other is Oak Park.
00:27:30:12 – 00:27:48:16
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
I like topical Oak Park. That can settle the skin really well. But other antihistamines will usually counter that, very, very rare to see a true anaphylactic type reaction. It’s possible, but it’s very, very rare.
00:27:48:18 – 00:28:24:14
Dr. Ron Hunninghake, MD
Well, the other part about this that I think is really exciting is and this, this whole approach of integrative oncology, where you’re using it as part of improving diet, doing detoxification, looking at how blood sugar affects cancer growth, stress management, getting adequate sleep, all of this really in my mind, and I think in the integrative oncology philosophy, is that you treat the whole person, but it just turns out here is a very specific therapy that attacks the cancer without hurting the person.
00:28:24:15 – 00:28:47:11
Dr. Ron Hunninghake, MD
Matter of fact, with the increased warmth, probably all of their systems are uplifted in working better as a result of this. So this is refreshing news for people who are who have maybe just been diagnosed. It sets that that diagnosis is such a fearful time and and the, the the and we all know of you know where side effects from standard therapy can be severe.
00:28:47:11 – 00:28:56:08
Dr. Ron Hunninghake, MD
So this this is good news in the sense that this is a way to attack the tumor without necessarily making the patient so much more sick.
00:28:56:10 – 00:29:28:02
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
In fact, most of the studies show a decrease in side effects from conventional care. And a lot of people ask is are there drug drug interactions with mistletoe and mistletoe. Has there have been tests. So most drug drug interactions happen through a certain set of enzymes in the liver that are commonly known as the P450 enzymes? Most people have heard of don’t take grapefruit juice because with this drug, because it’ll interact.
00:29:28:04 – 00:29:49:03
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
Well, mistletoe has been extensively researched there. And it doesn’t shift those, P450 enzymes. So we can rule out lots like the huge bulk of drug drug interactions. And it has been tested with pretty much every chemo out there. I use it hand in hand. I don’t know, you do the same.
00:29:49:05 – 00:29:59:07
Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Yeah. The benefits I mean, the fact that we don’t need to worry about interactions and it helps the patient so much is just a wonderful, wonderful thing.
00:29:59:09 – 00:30:31:13
Dr. Ron Hunninghake, MD
I would say it’s a breath of fresh air in ecology. And so yeah. So anyway, we could probably go on and on. Mark, I’m just so delighted that you took the time to spend with us and you and to and the work that you’ve done. You are a type of, mistletoe entrepreneur in this sense that you’re opening a whole new field of therapy that other people may not have heard about because it takes leadership oftentimes to get something new, even though it’s got 100 years of history and Europe just coming over here to the United States.
00:30:31:13 – 00:30:43:00
Dr. Ron Hunninghake, MD
You know, we’re always a bit cautious with new things. But this is a an old new thing that we’re bringing into the armamentarium that can help our cancer patients do better.
00:30:43:00 – 00:30:45:15
Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
So way better than a mullet right.
00:30:45:16 – 00:30:46:00
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
00:30:46:02 – 00:30:54:22
Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Yeah. Yeah. So, so Mark, I think you have an event coming up in two weeks. Did you want to tell us a little bit about that or tell the audience a little bit about that.
00:30:54:24 – 00:31:23:18
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
Yeah sure I can’t wait. It’s so it’s actually sort of three events, but there’s the public event from, on February 19th, and it’ll be live streamed. It’ll be live in person too. So you have a choice. And, Nasha Winters will be talking. I’ll be presenting at least two cases, of people that are going to be present and open to share their their really riveting stories.
00:31:23:18 – 00:31:51:13
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
I mean, it’s just I mean, so much heart there. Stephen Johnson, who helped write the book, and Carmen Herring, who’s the president of the and Pacific Medical Association, United States. So that one through 5 p.m., on the 19th of February, and you can get tickets through yeah, there’s link through Pam or, I can send you guys the link if you wanted to share it later.
00:31:51:15 – 00:31:55:07
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
But yeah, I’d love to have anyone who’s interested.
00:31:55:09 – 00:32:06:10
Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Yeah. You. You’ll have a couple of your patients speaking. Is that right or. Yeah. That’s right. That’s wonderful. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Some great I’ve had some great success. So it’s just such a pleasure to have you today.
00:32:06:12 – 00:32:26:17
Dr. Ron Hunninghake, MD
Well, I want to thank both of you for being on the program. And I know if Doctor Reardon would have been alive, he would have been 100% behind this because the whole goal was, what can we do to help improve human functioning, and especially in the category of this awful disease that we call cancer. So thank you so very much, Mark, and keep up the good work.
00:32:26:19 – 00:32:39:02
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
Thank you. I’m so honored to be part of this podcast. Thanks for for getting the word out to people about all the health giving things that are that are coming, coming up. Because there’s a lot.
00:32:39:04 – 00:32:41:21
Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Yeah, of course. We’ll see you in two weeks.
00:32:41:23 – 00:32:44:09
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
Yeah, I can’t wait. Kirsten.
00:32:44:11 – 00:32:45:05
Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Sounds good.
00:32:45:09 – 00:32:46:11
Dr. Mark Hancock, MD, MPH
Thanks. You guys.
00:32:46:13 – 00:32:48:10
Dr. Kirsten West, ND, LAc, FABNO
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
00:32:48:12 – 00:33:08:20
Narrator
Thank you for listening to The Real Health podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and leave us a review. You can also find all of the episodes in show notes over at Real Health podcast.org. Also, be sure to visit Riordan Clinic.org, where you will find hundreds of videos and articles to help you create your own version of real health.
